Jun 29, 2021, 12:47 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
United Adds 270 Boeing and Airbus Aircraft to Fleet, Largest Order in Airline's History and Biggest by a Single Carrier in a Decade
"United Next" includes addition of 200 Boeing 737 MAX and 70 Airbus A321neo as well as plans to retrofit 100% of remaining mainline, narrow-body fleet to transform the customer experience and create a new signature interior - a roughly 75% increase in premium seats per North American departure, larger overhead bins, seatback entertainment in every seat and industry's fastest available WiFi;
United will increase the total number of available seats across its domestic network by almost 30% per departure and replace at least 200 single-class regional jets with larger mainline aircraft;
Order expected to create 25,000 well-paying, unionized jobs at United, significantly lower carbon emissions per seat and contribute an estimated $50 billion annually towards the U.S. economy by 2026;
When combined with the airline's current order book, United expects to add more than 500 new aircraft including about one new plane every three days in 2023 alone
CHICAGO, June 29, 2021
-- United Airlines today announced the purchase of 270 new Boeing and Airbus aircraft - the largest combined order in the airline's history and the biggest by an individual carrier in the last decade. The 'United Next' plan will have a transformational effect on the customer experience and is expected to increase the total number of available seats per domestic departure by almost 30%, significantly lower carbon emissions per seat and create tens of thousands of quality, unionized jobs by 2026, all efforts that will have a positive, ripple effect across the broader U.S. economy.
When combined with the current order book, United expects to introduce more than 500 new, narrow-body aircraft: 40 in 2022, 138 in 2023 and as many as 350 in 2024 and beyond. That means in 2023 alone, United's fleet will, on average, add about one new narrow-body aircraft every three days.
United's new aircraft order – 50 737 MAX 8s, 150 737 MAX 10s and 70 A321neos – will come with a new signature interior that includes seat-back entertainment in every seat, larger overhead bins for every passenger's carry-on bag and the industry's fastest available in-flight WiFi, as well as a bright look-and-feel with LED lighting. The airline expects to fly the first 737 MAX 8 with the signature interior this summer and to begin flying the 737 MAX 10 and the Airbus A321neo in early 2023.
What's more, United intends to upgrade 100% of its mainline, narrow-body fleet to these standards by 2025, an extraordinary retrofit project that, when combined with the number of new aircraft joining the fleet, means United will deliver its state-of-the-art inflight experience to tens of millions of customers at an unprecedented pace.
This order will also significantly boost United's total number of mainline daily departures and available seats across the airline's North American network, as well as the number of premium seats, both United FirstSM and Economy Plus®. Specifically, United expects it will have on average 53 premium seats per North American departure by 2026, an increase of about 75% over 2019, and more than any competitor in North America.
"Our United Next vision will revolutionize the experience of flying United as we accelerate our business to meet a resurgence in air travel," said United CEO Scott Kirby. "By adding and upgrading this many aircraft so quickly with our new signature interiors, we'll combine friendly, helpful service with the best experience in the sky, all across our premier global network. At the same time, this move underscores the critical role United plays in fueling the broader U.S. economy – we expect the addition of these new aircraft will have a significant economic impact on the communities we serve in terms of job creation, traveler spending and commerce."
United expects to create approximately 25,000 well-paying, unionized jobs at the airline as a result of adding these new aircraft and, based on a study from the Federal Aviation Administration, the airline expects to drive more than $30 billion in traveler spending when flying United and contribute an estimated $50 billion annually towards the U.S. economy by 2026.
Plus, adding these new 737 MAX and Airbus A321neo aircraft means United will replace older, smaller mainline jets and at least 200 single-class regional jets with larger aircraft, which the airline expects will lead to significant sustainability benefits compared to older planes: an expected 11% overall improvement in fuel efficiency and an expected 17-20% lower carbon emission per seat compared to older planes.
The best customer experience in the industry
United's new aircraft reflect a vastly improved customer experience standard – United's signature interior – that places a premium on the overall comfort of flying – more overall available seats in the market, more premium seats on each aircraft, as well as better entertainment, overhead storage and technology features. These standards will be applied to the airline's retrofit plan - a nose-to-tail transformation of its mainline, narrow-body fleet - that is expected to be 66% complete by 2023 and 99% complete by the summer of 2025.
United's new narrow-body jets will help the airline increase its total seats per departure for North American flights by 30 seats, or almost 30%, by 2026. At the same time, the airline will quickly grow the number of United FirstSM and Economy Plus® seats for customers seeking an elevated experience.
United's 737 MAX 8 has 16 United FirstSM seats and 54 Economy Plus® seats – more than double the number of extra leg room seats offered by competing airlines on similar-sized aircraft. The 737 MAX 10 - the largest member of the MAX family - makes up the majority of United's new order and will include 20 United FirstSM seats and 64 Economy Plus® seats and the new A321neo aircraft are expected to have a United FirstSM and Economy Plus® seat count similar to that of the 737 MAX 10.
By flying bigger jets with a signature interior that includes more premium seating, United will give customers more choice when selecting their onboard experience, provide MileagePlus® members more opportunity for upgrades, and position United to better meet the demand among United's business customers while creating even more connectivity to its global long-haul network, helping to fuel growth to all corners of the world.
"We'll deliver a better, more consistent experience, with more features for more customers, faster than ever. While some airlines are reducing the number of economy seats with extra leg room, United will offer the most premium seats in North America, taking a different, more customer-friendly approach," said Andrew Nocella, United's EVP and Chief Commercial Officer. "This is United playing to our strengths - the location of our U.S. hubs means we're uniquely positioned to focus on premium products, business travel and global flying like no other U.S. airline. Our new, signature interior creates a more consistent product across our mainline fleet - with a focus on the amenities that customers value most like seat back screens, fast WiFi and extra storage - to further set ourselves apart."
United's inflight entertainment – 13-inch high-definition screens in every first class seat and 10-inch HD screens in every United Economy seat on the 737 MAX – includes free access to more than 2,800 selections including movies, TV shows and international selections, as well as audio playlists, podcasts, and games. Customers also can watch documentaries and live concerts through United's exclusive collaboration with the Coda Collection. Plus, every seat on these aircraft has access to electrical power and USB charge ports and provides a seatback experience with accessibility features for people with hearing or visual disabilities.
Each new 737 MAX and A321neo will have the industry's fastest available in-flight WiFi that lets customers stream video from online services. The aircraft also will have Bluetooth technology throughout for easy connections between wireless headphones and the seatback entertainment screens.
United's new, significantly larger overhead bins will provide space for one carry-on bag for every person onboard, addressing several of the biggest pain points among customers and employees. United expects that the availability of these larger bins will help alleviate gate crowding and anxiety, reduce the number of gate-checked bags and decrease the time it takes to board.
More Flights, New Destinations
United's plan to add hundreds of signature interior narrow-body aircraft to its fleet will give customers access to more modern seats and planes while reducing flights that use smaller, single-class regional jets. These new aircraft also will give customers even more options to fly between U.S. cities, including some new destinations, when they travel through the airline's major U.S. hubs. Finally, the larger mainline fleet will help accelerate United's plans to expand service in partnership with local airport authorities across the United States.
Impact in Newark/NYC
United expects to resume its full schedule of flights out of Newark by November 2021 when the FAA slot waiver period ends. The airline is already the leading carrier from Newark - United's largest global gateway - with 430 daily flights that include international destinations like Johannesburg, Tel Aviv, Mumbai and Hong Kong.
United expects the number of Newark departures on mainline aircraft to increase from 55% in 2019 to 70% by 2026. And by late 2021, United expects 100% of Newark departures to be on dual-class aircraft, including the 737 MAX and the airline's new, dual-class 50-seat CRJ-550 jet. Today's aircraft order means the airline can create quality, union jobs, as well as grow domestic and international capacity from Newark for years to come by replacing smaller mainline jets with larger aircraft, while at the same time driving international growth, by connecting more customers from U.S. cities to Newark/NYC for their international flights.
United is in the midst of a significant facility expansion and upgrade project at Newark. The work includes renovating an existing United Club SM location in Terminal C, building a completely new lounge in Terminal C that is capable of accommodating 500 travelers and will have panoramic views of Manhattan, as well as building a brand new United Club in Terminal A where United will operate from 12 new gates.
Jobs
Today, the airline supports about 68,000 union jobs - 89% of the airline's total domestic workforce.
All United employees – even part-time workers – earn more than the federal minimum wage, are eligible to receive company-sponsored medical coverage, participate in company-funded retirement programs like 401(k)s and receive paid sick leave, paid vacation and flight privileges when space is available to destinations around the world. Plus, these jobs offer opportunities for career growth – about 69% of the airline's senior leaders were internally promoted and more than 1,500 frontline employees have been promoted into management roles in the past seven years.
"The addition of these 270 new aircraft and reduction of single-class regional jets is not only good news for customers, it is excellent news for the 12,000 current United pilots, and the 10,000 more we expect to hire before the decade is out," said United ALPA Chair Capt. Todd Insler. "This is exactly what we planned for when we reached our industry-leading pandemic recovery agreement last year and kept United pilots on the property, trained and ready to take advantage of the rapid recovery in passenger demand. With the strength of our network, fleet, and pilot compensation, we are sure United will remain the destination of choice for the most highly qualified airline pilots."
United's new aircraft order is expected to create about 25,000 well-paying, unionized jobs by 2026, including the following at each of the airline's seven, major U.S. hubs:
In addition to creating jobs, the addition of these new aircraft to United's fleet is expected to drive more than $30 billion in traveler spending when flying United and contribute an estimated $50 billion annually towards the U.S. economy by 2026, based on a study from the Federal Aviation Administration and United's internal estimates:
By 2026, United expects its use of aircraft in this new order alone will lower the airline's total carbon emissions per seat up to 15%. Specifically, the 737 MAX and A321neo aircraft offer better overall range and environmental performance with their new, more fuel-efficient engines and improved aerodynamics. Improvements come from new engines, lighter-weight carbon composite airframes and aerodynamic innovations like natural laminar flow that reduces drag. United has set an ambitious goal to be 100% green by reducing its greenhouse gas emissions 100% by 2050, without relying on traditional carbon offsets.
"United Next" includes addition of 200 Boeing 737 MAX and 70 Airbus A321neo as well as plans to retrofit 100% of remaining mainline, narrow-body fleet to transform the customer experience and create a new signature interior - a roughly 75% increase in premium seats per North American departure, larger overhead bins, seatback entertainment in every seat and industry's fastest available WiFi;
United will increase the total number of available seats across its domestic network by almost 30% per departure and replace at least 200 single-class regional jets with larger mainline aircraft;
Order expected to create 25,000 well-paying, unionized jobs at United, significantly lower carbon emissions per seat and contribute an estimated $50 billion annually towards the U.S. economy by 2026;
When combined with the airline's current order book, United expects to add more than 500 new aircraft including about one new plane every three days in 2023 alone
CHICAGO, June 29, 2021
-- United Airlines today announced the purchase of 270 new Boeing and Airbus aircraft - the largest combined order in the airline's history and the biggest by an individual carrier in the last decade. The 'United Next' plan will have a transformational effect on the customer experience and is expected to increase the total number of available seats per domestic departure by almost 30%, significantly lower carbon emissions per seat and create tens of thousands of quality, unionized jobs by 2026, all efforts that will have a positive, ripple effect across the broader U.S. economy.
When combined with the current order book, United expects to introduce more than 500 new, narrow-body aircraft: 40 in 2022, 138 in 2023 and as many as 350 in 2024 and beyond. That means in 2023 alone, United's fleet will, on average, add about one new narrow-body aircraft every three days.
United's new aircraft order – 50 737 MAX 8s, 150 737 MAX 10s and 70 A321neos – will come with a new signature interior that includes seat-back entertainment in every seat, larger overhead bins for every passenger's carry-on bag and the industry's fastest available in-flight WiFi, as well as a bright look-and-feel with LED lighting. The airline expects to fly the first 737 MAX 8 with the signature interior this summer and to begin flying the 737 MAX 10 and the Airbus A321neo in early 2023.
What's more, United intends to upgrade 100% of its mainline, narrow-body fleet to these standards by 2025, an extraordinary retrofit project that, when combined with the number of new aircraft joining the fleet, means United will deliver its state-of-the-art inflight experience to tens of millions of customers at an unprecedented pace.
This order will also significantly boost United's total number of mainline daily departures and available seats across the airline's North American network, as well as the number of premium seats, both United FirstSM and Economy Plus®. Specifically, United expects it will have on average 53 premium seats per North American departure by 2026, an increase of about 75% over 2019, and more than any competitor in North America.
"Our United Next vision will revolutionize the experience of flying United as we accelerate our business to meet a resurgence in air travel," said United CEO Scott Kirby. "By adding and upgrading this many aircraft so quickly with our new signature interiors, we'll combine friendly, helpful service with the best experience in the sky, all across our premier global network. At the same time, this move underscores the critical role United plays in fueling the broader U.S. economy – we expect the addition of these new aircraft will have a significant economic impact on the communities we serve in terms of job creation, traveler spending and commerce."
United expects to create approximately 25,000 well-paying, unionized jobs at the airline as a result of adding these new aircraft and, based on a study from the Federal Aviation Administration, the airline expects to drive more than $30 billion in traveler spending when flying United and contribute an estimated $50 billion annually towards the U.S. economy by 2026.
Plus, adding these new 737 MAX and Airbus A321neo aircraft means United will replace older, smaller mainline jets and at least 200 single-class regional jets with larger aircraft, which the airline expects will lead to significant sustainability benefits compared to older planes: an expected 11% overall improvement in fuel efficiency and an expected 17-20% lower carbon emission per seat compared to older planes.
The best customer experience in the industry
United's new aircraft reflect a vastly improved customer experience standard – United's signature interior – that places a premium on the overall comfort of flying – more overall available seats in the market, more premium seats on each aircraft, as well as better entertainment, overhead storage and technology features. These standards will be applied to the airline's retrofit plan - a nose-to-tail transformation of its mainline, narrow-body fleet - that is expected to be 66% complete by 2023 and 99% complete by the summer of 2025.
United's new narrow-body jets will help the airline increase its total seats per departure for North American flights by 30 seats, or almost 30%, by 2026. At the same time, the airline will quickly grow the number of United FirstSM and Economy Plus® seats for customers seeking an elevated experience.
United's 737 MAX 8 has 16 United FirstSM seats and 54 Economy Plus® seats – more than double the number of extra leg room seats offered by competing airlines on similar-sized aircraft. The 737 MAX 10 - the largest member of the MAX family - makes up the majority of United's new order and will include 20 United FirstSM seats and 64 Economy Plus® seats and the new A321neo aircraft are expected to have a United FirstSM and Economy Plus® seat count similar to that of the 737 MAX 10.
By flying bigger jets with a signature interior that includes more premium seating, United will give customers more choice when selecting their onboard experience, provide MileagePlus® members more opportunity for upgrades, and position United to better meet the demand among United's business customers while creating even more connectivity to its global long-haul network, helping to fuel growth to all corners of the world.
"We'll deliver a better, more consistent experience, with more features for more customers, faster than ever. While some airlines are reducing the number of economy seats with extra leg room, United will offer the most premium seats in North America, taking a different, more customer-friendly approach," said Andrew Nocella, United's EVP and Chief Commercial Officer. "This is United playing to our strengths - the location of our U.S. hubs means we're uniquely positioned to focus on premium products, business travel and global flying like no other U.S. airline. Our new, signature interior creates a more consistent product across our mainline fleet - with a focus on the amenities that customers value most like seat back screens, fast WiFi and extra storage - to further set ourselves apart."
United's inflight entertainment – 13-inch high-definition screens in every first class seat and 10-inch HD screens in every United Economy seat on the 737 MAX – includes free access to more than 2,800 selections including movies, TV shows and international selections, as well as audio playlists, podcasts, and games. Customers also can watch documentaries and live concerts through United's exclusive collaboration with the Coda Collection. Plus, every seat on these aircraft has access to electrical power and USB charge ports and provides a seatback experience with accessibility features for people with hearing or visual disabilities.
Each new 737 MAX and A321neo will have the industry's fastest available in-flight WiFi that lets customers stream video from online services. The aircraft also will have Bluetooth technology throughout for easy connections between wireless headphones and the seatback entertainment screens.
United's new, significantly larger overhead bins will provide space for one carry-on bag for every person onboard, addressing several of the biggest pain points among customers and employees. United expects that the availability of these larger bins will help alleviate gate crowding and anxiety, reduce the number of gate-checked bags and decrease the time it takes to board.
More Flights, New Destinations
United's plan to add hundreds of signature interior narrow-body aircraft to its fleet will give customers access to more modern seats and planes while reducing flights that use smaller, single-class regional jets. These new aircraft also will give customers even more options to fly between U.S. cities, including some new destinations, when they travel through the airline's major U.S. hubs. Finally, the larger mainline fleet will help accelerate United's plans to expand service in partnership with local airport authorities across the United States.
Impact in Newark/NYC
United expects to resume its full schedule of flights out of Newark by November 2021 when the FAA slot waiver period ends. The airline is already the leading carrier from Newark - United's largest global gateway - with 430 daily flights that include international destinations like Johannesburg, Tel Aviv, Mumbai and Hong Kong.
United expects the number of Newark departures on mainline aircraft to increase from 55% in 2019 to 70% by 2026. And by late 2021, United expects 100% of Newark departures to be on dual-class aircraft, including the 737 MAX and the airline's new, dual-class 50-seat CRJ-550 jet. Today's aircraft order means the airline can create quality, union jobs, as well as grow domestic and international capacity from Newark for years to come by replacing smaller mainline jets with larger aircraft, while at the same time driving international growth, by connecting more customers from U.S. cities to Newark/NYC for their international flights.
United is in the midst of a significant facility expansion and upgrade project at Newark. The work includes renovating an existing United Club SM location in Terminal C, building a completely new lounge in Terminal C that is capable of accommodating 500 travelers and will have panoramic views of Manhattan, as well as building a brand new United Club in Terminal A where United will operate from 12 new gates.
Jobs
Today, the airline supports about 68,000 union jobs - 89% of the airline's total domestic workforce.
All United employees – even part-time workers – earn more than the federal minimum wage, are eligible to receive company-sponsored medical coverage, participate in company-funded retirement programs like 401(k)s and receive paid sick leave, paid vacation and flight privileges when space is available to destinations around the world. Plus, these jobs offer opportunities for career growth – about 69% of the airline's senior leaders were internally promoted and more than 1,500 frontline employees have been promoted into management roles in the past seven years.
"The addition of these 270 new aircraft and reduction of single-class regional jets is not only good news for customers, it is excellent news for the 12,000 current United pilots, and the 10,000 more we expect to hire before the decade is out," said United ALPA Chair Capt. Todd Insler. "This is exactly what we planned for when we reached our industry-leading pandemic recovery agreement last year and kept United pilots on the property, trained and ready to take advantage of the rapid recovery in passenger demand. With the strength of our network, fleet, and pilot compensation, we are sure United will remain the destination of choice for the most highly qualified airline pilots."
United's new aircraft order is expected to create about 25,000 well-paying, unionized jobs by 2026, including the following at each of the airline's seven, major U.S. hubs:
- Newark / EWR: up to 5,000 jobs
- San Francisco / SFO: up to 4,000 jobs
- Washington, D.C. / IAD: up to 3,000 jobs
- Chicago / ORD: up to 3,000 jobs
- Houston / IAH: up to 3,000 jobs
- Denver / DEN: up to 3,000 jobs
- Los Angeles / LAX: up to 1,400 jobs
- Contact Center, Ramp and Customer Service Agents (represented by IAM): United employed about 28,000 agents in 2019 - 14,000 who help load each aircraft, 12,000 customer service representatives in airports and 3,000 contact center agents (including about 900 based at the airline's Houston Reservation Center and 700 at United's Chicago facility) who help customers find the best option for their travel. Most of these jobs include entry-level opportunities for people directly out of high school and college, and their combined wages and benefits in 2019 totaled more than $90,000 at the top of their pay scale. Several of United's top leaders started out working on the ramp or in customer service, including United's current Senior Vice President of Airport Operations who started on the ramp, the airline's Vice President of San Francisco, who started as a customer service agent and United's current Managing Director of Customer Care, who started as a lead travel consultant.
- Dispatchers (represented by PAFCA): United has 400 dispatchers and in 2019 their combined wages and benefits totaled more than $200,000 at the top of their pay scale. These positions are certified by the FAA and share joint responsibility with the captain for the safe operation of every United flight. The airline has many dispatchers working in United's Network Operations Center who came from positions across the company including agents and management positions.
- Flight Attendants (represented by AFA): United had about 24,000 active flight attendants in 2019 and their combined wages and benefits totaled more than $90,000 at the top of their pay scale. With the unique ability to see the world while working, it's no surprise that flight attendant jobs are highly desired. In 2019, United had over 65,000 applicants for fewer than 1,500 flight attendant positions. New hires go through a six-week training course at United's Houston Training Center and visit one of the airline's seven training facilities every year to keep their skills fresh. Additionally, those interested in becoming a flight attendant do not require special schooling or a college degree and are fully trained once hired. United's current Senior Vice President of Inflight Services started as a flight attendant.
- Pilots (represented by ALPA): United has about 12,000 pilots - Captains of United's Boeing 787s and 777s can earn more than $350,000. In addition, United pilots receive one of the highest 401(k) matches in the nation – 16% of base pay. United leads the industry as the only major airline to own its own flight school – the United Aviate Academy – and recently embarked on a plan to train 5,000 new pilots by 2030 with the goal of at least half of them being women and people of color. The company had previously announced that it anticipates hiring more than 10,000 pilots by 2029. All United pilots complete intensive simulator training with our pilot instructors and evaluators every nine months at United's Flight Training Center in Denver. United's current Senior Vice President of Flight Operations started as a First Officer, served as a U.S. Naval Aviator and retired as a Navy Captain from the U.S. Navy Reserve.
- Technicians (represented by IBT): United had more than 9,000 technicians in 2019 and their combined wages and benefits totaled more than $140,000 at the top of their pay scale. This frontline team includes aircraft mechanics, facilities technicians and ground equipment technicians. These are highly skilled jobs – the airline actively recruits from the military - and United provides an onramp to this career through entry-level positions. Several United airlines leaders started out as aircraft mechanics, including the airline's current Vice President for Technical Operations.
In addition to creating jobs, the addition of these new aircraft to United's fleet is expected to drive more than $30 billion in traveler spending when flying United and contribute an estimated $50 billion annually towards the U.S. economy by 2026, based on a study from the Federal Aviation Administration and United's internal estimates:
- Jobs & Wages: In 2020, United paid more than $10 billion in wages and this new aircraft order has the potential to create an additional 25,000 United jobs by 2026, with billions of dollars more in potential additional wages expected. United estimates that every new direct airline job results in about two additional indirect jobs like aircraft manufacturers, airport management and airport retail. Furthermore, United's estimates indicate that each new direct and indirect job induces an additional five jobs, potentially creating a total wage impact of up to $12 billion annually.
- Visitor Spending: Based on the FAA study, United estimates domestic air travelers spend about $500 per trip in addition to airfare (food, lodging, recreation, gifts, entertainment, etc.). The addition of 270 new aircraft means the potential to carry tens of millions more passengers per year through 2026, which, using this metric for visitor spending, could contribute more than $30 billion in annual consumer spending when traveling on United.
- Taxes & Fees: Each year, United generates about $4 billion of direct (ticket excise, fuel, and property) and payroll taxes. United's own internal analysis estimates that these numbers will increase as a result of purchasing these 270 new aircraft.
By 2026, United expects its use of aircraft in this new order alone will lower the airline's total carbon emissions per seat up to 15%. Specifically, the 737 MAX and A321neo aircraft offer better overall range and environmental performance with their new, more fuel-efficient engines and improved aerodynamics. Improvements come from new engines, lighter-weight carbon composite airframes and aerodynamic innovations like natural laminar flow that reduces drag. United has set an ambitious goal to be 100% green by reducing its greenhouse gas emissions 100% by 2050, without relying on traditional carbon offsets.
United Next - Investor Event June 29, 2021
Here is the link to the IR report: https://ir.united.com/static-files/2...f-888ed4c7ae33
"United Next", UA announces purchase of 200 Boeing 737 Max and 70 Airbus A321 Neo
Jul 8, 2021, 8:08 am
#151
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: 1K
Posts: 220
I don't think all the 2-classes are going elsewhere, if anything they'll stay where they are or be upgauged. It seems like they're going to keep the current 50-seater services out of DEN because those markets either can't be served with anything else or it gives them a competitive advantage (like frequencies) over DL/AA
I don't know what "small mountain town" you live in but every city UA flies to in CO, except ALS and PUB (both of which are EAS), currently have 2 cabin planes on the schedule. I don't think UA is all of the sudden going to just downgaging the CO Ski Cities as there is a lot of money there for first class travel. I am pretty sure the 50 seat cabins are going to stay mostly on EAS routes, United currently has 20 EAS routes out of DEN and most of them are to cities in WY, NE, KS, MO, ND, IA, and UT (not really "small mountain towns"). Also, recently the 50 seat RJs have been on 1 to 1.5 hr flights, I don't have much of an issue sitting on one of those on short hops (as they were originally intended for) vs having to drive 5-10 hours to an airport.
GUC is down to 2x 50-seaters (CommutAir, no less), so that's a capacity cut from the CR7s of last summer. GJT is mostly 50-seaters, but has a few E75.
I would be happy with 50 seaters to mountain towns on an increased schedule, but I'll believe it when I see it. For instance, it's rare for DEN-GUC to have more than 2 flights a day, even during peak ski season. At EGE this summer, UA has held with 2-3x E75 to DEN (dropping a planned mainline ORD), while AA is flying multiple 319s to DFW, ORD and CR7s to PHX. AA has always owned EGE, so that's no surprise, but again I'll believe the talk about improved frequency when I see it.
I would be happy with 50 seaters to mountain towns on an increased schedule, but I'll believe it when I see it. For instance, it's rare for DEN-GUC to have more than 2 flights a day, even during peak ski season. At EGE this summer, UA has held with 2-3x E75 to DEN (dropping a planned mainline ORD), while AA is flying multiple 319s to DFW, ORD and CR7s to PHX. AA has always owned EGE, so that's no surprise, but again I'll believe the talk about improved frequency when I see it.
Frequency here (DRO) has been great, but the planes have been getting worse and UA has not responded to amazing pricing from AA and now DL and even F9. Also, with UA it's Denver or bust, while AA hits PHX, DAL and LAX. Fortunately UAs schedule has been far better for OPM travel, but for personal it's really hard to justify the diffs.
Jul 8, 2021, 8:28 am
#152
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,118
In reading the announcement and looking at the PDF presentation, my takeaway (perhaps flawed) is that major hubs like ORD and EWR are going to nearly 100% 2-class. In order for that to happen they could move to all narrow body (not regional) jets (unlikely) or move re-allocate the existing regional fleet to meet the target of only 2-class cabins from those hubs. What I think that means (and has been borne out with the CR700 to CR550 conversions) is that DEN is getting a higher ratio of 200 and 135/145 planes. My town went from a majority CRJ700 with an occasional ERJ175 to 80% single cabin, with typically one 175 a day; comes in at night and leaves in AM. With the announcement, I'm assuming the remaining 175s will go to the 2-cabin only hubs and high end DEN markets (EGE, ASE), while everyone else out of DEN will be crammed into 200s and 135/145s.
Frequency here (DRO) has been great, but the planes have been getting worse and UA has not responded to amazing pricing from AA and now DL and even F9. Also, with UA it's Denver or bust, while AA hits PHX, DAL and LAX. Fortunately UAs schedule has been far better for OPM travel, but for personal it's really hard to justify the diffs.
Frequency here (DRO) has been great, but the planes have been getting worse and UA has not responded to amazing pricing from AA and now DL and even F9. Also, with UA it's Denver or bust, while AA hits PHX, DAL and LAX. Fortunately UAs schedule has been far better for OPM travel, but for personal it's really hard to justify the diffs.
Jul 8, 2021, 9:11 am
#153
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 1,679
In reading the announcement and looking at the PDF presentation, my takeaway (perhaps flawed) is that major hubs like ORD and EWR are going to nearly 100% 2-class. In order for that to happen they could move to all narrow body (not regional) jets (unlikely) or move re-allocate the existing regional fleet to meet the target of only 2-class cabins from those hubs. What I think that means (and has been borne out with the CR700 to CR550 conversions) is that DEN is getting a higher ratio of 200 and 135/145 planes. My town went from a majority CRJ700 with an occasional ERJ175 to 80% single cabin, with typically one 175 a day; comes in at night and leaves in AM. With the announcement, I'm assuming the remaining 175s will go to the 2-cabin only hubs and high end DEN markets (EGE, ASE), while everyone else out of DEN will be crammed into 200s and 135/145s.
Frequency here (DRO) has been great, but the planes have been getting worse and UA has not responded to amazing pricing from AA and now DL and even F9. Also, with UA it's Denver or bust, while AA hits PHX, DAL and LAX. Fortunately UAs schedule has been far better for OPM travel, but for personal it's really hard to justify the diffs.
Frequency here (DRO) has been great, but the planes have been getting worse and UA has not responded to amazing pricing from AA and now DL and even F9. Also, with UA it's Denver or bust, while AA hits PHX, DAL and LAX. Fortunately UAs schedule has been far better for OPM travel, but for personal it's really hard to justify the diffs.
I did look at the schedule for tomorrow and 50% of the DRO-DEN flights are 2 cabin aircraft (3 out of 6). So I don't know where the 80% figure you are finding is coming from. Personally, I would prefer to sit on a 50 seat RJ for a one-hour flight then connect to a 2 cabin aircraft (even if it is Express) for my connecting flight. However, you can always take the 4 hour drive to ABQ if you are wanting to avoid the CRJs.
Jul 8, 2021, 9:14 am
#154
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Posts: 220
Looking out to October and starting on 10/5 going into ski season we are 100% CRJs.
Jul 8, 2021, 10:43 am
#155
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: ORD, MCO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 271
Hmm, I don't think there will be a lot of "moving". I look at it as follows: They're just going to retire a bunch of the 50-seaters (down to 8% from 26% of total capacity) and fill that gap in the ORD/EWR markets with the current set of 70-76 seaters based there while some of the old 70-76 seater routes get replaced with narrowbody aircraft and so on and so forth until you get to the end of the chain where the newly-ordered 180-200 seaters start replacing existing 170-180 seaters etc. Starting around 2023, they should be relying on new deliveries whether than having to take out narrowbodies from other hubs like DEN
Jul 8, 2021, 11:33 am
#156
Used to be MBS PremExec
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If you look at most (certainly not all) smaller outstations, it's almost invariably CRJs on the schedule*. Sort of like when you see posts like "Why does my B737-900 show only 3 rows of first class, six months from now?" (no, they're not cutting the number of F seats on a B739, but it gives them leeway in case they put a different airframe on that route)...Same thing here. The CRJ/ERJ is indeed the lowest common denominator and it's MUCH easier to tell a customer, especially an elite who might upgrade/buy F or select their seat in E+, "We're actually not going to fly a CRJ on 10/7, it's going to be an E170/E175/CR7/CR550 with a First cabin, E+ and real exit rows". It's much harder to say, if they do indeed downguage, "We're taking away the F seat you booked for 10/7--you're not getting that E175, we're jamming you all into a CRJ!"
*My home airport (MBS) is that way. Shows 3X daily CRJs 10/4 onward. Prior to the last major schedule change in June, August 1 - October 4th showed those same 3X CRJs. When they updated the schedule last month, they 'confirmed' the CRJ550 X2 daily, with F class and E+. Same thing for other airports I watch (in Mich) like AZO and LAN: Aug-Oct 4, 3X daily CRJs on the 'placeholder' schedule before the June update, now LAN is 2X daily on 2-cabin and AZO is 1X daily on a 2-cabin. FNT keeps the CRJs, but their 3 flights/day placeholders have also invariably changed to 2 daily. What will these small airports' flights look like when they firm up the schedule? Anyone's guess, but sometime probably in July, they'll load Oct 5th, probably through end of Oct or into November, and you'll see a complete revamping of frequencies/routes/aircrafts.
Similarly, you'll see people on here say things like "ORD-HKG is back starting Oct 5th"( completely made that up)...No, it's not. It's the placeholder schedule that they'll probably end up dropping the route with the next major update. Has happened countless times since COVID and will continue.
Jul 8, 2021, 2:41 pm
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,884
In reading the announcement and looking at the PDF presentation, my takeaway (perhaps flawed) is that major hubs like ORD and EWR are going to nearly 100% 2-class. In order for that to happen they could move to all narrow body (not regional) jets (unlikely) or move re-allocate the existing regional fleet to meet the target of only 2-class cabins from those hubs. What I think that means (and has been borne out with the CR700 to CR550 conversions) is that DEN is getting a higher ratio of 200 and 135/145 planes. My town went from a majority CRJ700 with an occasional ERJ175 to 80% single cabin, with typically one 175 a day; comes in at night and leaves in AM. With the announcement, I'm assuming the remaining 175s will go to the 2-cabin only hubs and high end DEN markets (EGE, ASE), while everyone else out of DEN will be crammed into 200s and 135/145s.
As to the current CR2s, some may remain and/or move out west, but given UA also announced a large reduction in the 50-seater count, I suspect they will be on fewer/routes frequencies, and the frequencies that don't have them will be up gauged (maybe 70/76 seaters to move to A319/73G, and some of the freed up 70/76 seaters will go to 50 seater flights). I do wonder whether the 550 project will be expanded to cover the rockies and west coast at some point.
For years on these threads people were complaining that UA was using regional jets for "non-regional routes" like when UA flew DEN-ATL on CRJs, I just find it comical that when UA uses those plans on regional routes that are less than one hour flight time people now complain. Although I guess that is what this site is best known for.
Hmm, I don't think there will be a lot of "moving". I look at it as follows: They're just going to retire a bunch of the 50-seaters (down to 8% from 26% of total capacity) and fill that gap in the ORD/EWR markets with the current set of 70-76 seaters based there while some of the old 70-76 seater routes get replaced with narrowbody aircraft and so on and so forth until you get to the end of the chain where the newly-ordered 180-200 seaters start replacing existing 170-180 seaters etc. Starting around 2023, they should be relying on new deliveries whether than having to take out narrowbodies from other hubs like DEN
I don't know if they've announced any 550 expansion though - IIRC this was only targeted for the GoJet CR7s, at least initially. Wonder if they will convert the Skywest CR7s still flying for UA to 550s at some point, and with that bring those further west to DEN/SFO/LAX (I think, at least AFAIK, GoJet only serves the ORD/IAD/EWR hubs, and traditionally, has been more the first two). Would be great to see some of the 550s flying some of these regional routes out of SFO that currently use CR2s. Maybe DEN too?
Jul 8, 2021, 6:33 pm
#158
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Join Date: Sep 2000
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I don't know if they've announced any 550 expansion though - IIRC this was only targeted for the GoJet CR7s, at least initially. Wonder if they will convert the Skywest CR7s still flying for UA to 550s at some point, and with that bring those further west to DEN/SFO/LAX (I think, at least AFAIK, GoJet only serves the ORD/IAD/EWR hubs, and traditionally, has been more the first two). Would be great to see some of the 550s flying some of these regional routes out of SFO that currently use CR2s. Maybe DEN too?
I’m not an expert, but I heard that they’re pleased with the cost metrics, and that overall it’s not much higher operating costs than the -200. One less F/A than the -700, a lot less labor than the -200 with self-serve carry-ons (no more green tags and the labor required to do that). And with possible upsells to F or E+, it at least gives UA a shot at extra revenue.
No IAD flying. Just ORD and EWR. With 74 frames planned, not sure if that warrants enough to open many more GoJet crew bases beyond ORD, EWR and GoJet’s home, STL.
I’ve been fortunate that my airport has been all -550 service for almost a year now (after 20+ years of non-stop CRJs), and I love love love them. Night and day, the -200 vs the -550. 20+ segments on the -550 alone in the past year. I’ll take it anywhere within its range!
Last edited by MBS MillionMiler; Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 pm Reason: “upsets” corrected to “upsells”.
Jul 8, 2021, 8:11 pm
#159
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: ORD, MCO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 271
Jul 8, 2021, 11:54 pm
#160
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Believe it or not I think they said by the end of this year the single-classes would be gone from EWR. This chart is somewhat satisfying (from page 15 of the slides). Unfortunately across the whole network, you'll still have 8% of capacity on single-class 50-seaters but that's better than 26%..! In the longer-term (10-20+ years), there doesn't seem to be a direct replacement for the single-class 50-seaters. Maybe that has something to do with Mitsubishi mulling production of some CRJ's again
Jul 9, 2021, 7:05 am
#161
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: 1K
Posts: 220
Hmm, I don't think there will be a lot of "moving". I look at it as follows: They're just going to retire a bunch of the 50-seaters (down to 8% from 26% of total capacity) and fill that gap in the ORD/EWR markets with the current set of 70-76 seaters based there while some of the old 70-76 seater routes get replaced with narrowbody aircraft and so on and so forth until you get to the end of the chain where the newly-ordered 180-200 seaters start replacing existing 170-180 seaters etc. Starting around 2023, they should be relying on new deliveries whether than having to take out narrowbodies from other hubs like DEN
Jul 9, 2021, 8:13 am
#162
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Overall, single-class regional jets will go from 33% of North American departures to ~10%
Probably best to view the actual presentation to get a clearer understanding
Jul 9, 2021, 3:21 pm
#163
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: ORD, MCO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 271
This is a neat chart that summarizes the changes in terms of fleet composition
Jul 9, 2021, 4:53 pm
#164
Used to be MBS PremExec
Join Date: Sep 2000
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I'll go on the record and say that the post 10/5 schedule WILL change, what's there now is basically a placeholder until fleet/route planning sets a more firm schedule. As of now, only through 10/4, globally with United, is the schedule RELATIVELY fixed, it will change too, while most (again, not all) aircraft scheduled to fly between now and 10/4 aren't guaranteed, it's a pretty good idea.
*My home airport (MBS) is that way. Shows 3X daily CRJs 10/4 onward. Prior to the last major schedule change in June, August 1 - October 4th showed those same 3X CRJs. When they updated the schedule last month, they 'confirmed' the CRJ550 X2 daily, with F class and E+. Same thing for other airports I watch (in Mich) like AZO and LAN: Aug-Oct 4, 3X daily CRJs on the 'placeholder' schedule before the June update, now LAN is 2X daily on 2-cabin and AZO is 1X daily on a 2-cabin. FNT keeps the CRJs, but their 3 flights/day placeholders have also invariably changed to 2 daily. What will these small airports' flights look like when they firm up the schedule? Anyone's guess, but sometime probably in July, they'll load Oct 5th, probably through end of Oct or into November, and you'll see a complete revamping of frequencies/routes/aircraft.
*My home airport (MBS) is that way. Shows 3X daily CRJs 10/4 onward. Prior to the last major schedule change in June, August 1 - October 4th showed those same 3X CRJs. When they updated the schedule last month, they 'confirmed' the CRJ550 X2 daily, with F class and E+. Same thing for other airports I watch (in Mich) like AZO and LAN: Aug-Oct 4, 3X daily CRJs on the 'placeholder' schedule before the June update, now LAN is 2X daily on 2-cabin and AZO is 1X daily on a 2-cabin. FNT keeps the CRJs, but their 3 flights/day placeholders have also invariably changed to 2 daily. What will these small airports' flights look like when they firm up the schedule? Anyone's guess, but sometime probably in July, they'll load Oct 5th, probably through end of Oct or into November, and you'll see a complete revamping of frequencies/routes/aircraft.
), but that schedule update is occurring tonight; Now effective through 10/30. And indeed, the sky is not falling, as 3 of the Durango-DEN flights moved to a E175 from a CRJ. …And still shows the all-CRJs after 10/31, which November will update in a couple more weeks. Same thing for my airport, as expected and hoped for— 3X CRJs daily became two daily -550s.
Jul 9, 2021, 6:34 pm
#165
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
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Good question, I got that from Brett Snyder's blog: https://crankyflier.com/2021/06/29/u...ircraft-order/
This is a neat chart that summarizes the changes in terms of fleet composition
This is a neat chart that summarizes the changes in terms of fleet composition