Use of Infant Car Seats in UA's Polaris Seats, UA says No but ....
May 20, 2019, 11:55 pm
#46
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 220
Does anybody have an update on this? I'm booked with my infant (whom I'd love to put in a carseat) in J again this summer on a 777-200. Currently it's showing the old configuration, so I know I'd be good to go, but it seems it might change to the new config between now and the flight. There really doesn't seem to be any logical reason to prohibit car seats from the forward-facing seats...
May 21, 2019, 1:22 am
#47
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UA is still stating
Child safety seats or restraint systems are also not permitted in first class on three-cabin 767 or 777-200 aircraft, on 757-200 aircraft with rear-facing seats, or in United Polaris® business class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft.
Jun 5, 2019, 9:32 pm
#48
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Discussion moved from https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31174491-post939.html
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also clearly posted on UA's website
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3) Utter confusion about car seat. First agent said she never heard of any limitations about car seats. Second agent said car seats are never allowed in lie flat. Truth is in between, there is a long thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...-infant-3.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...-infant-3.html
Child safety seats or restraint systems are also not permitted in first class on three-cabin 767 or 777-200 aircraft, on 757-200 aircraft with rear-facing seats, or in United Polaris® business class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 6, 2019 at 10:14 am
Jun 5, 2019, 11:02 pm
#49
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Child safety seats or restraint systems are also not permitted in first class on three-cabin 767 or 777-200 aircraft, on 757-200 aircraft with rear-facing seats, or in United Polaris® first class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft.
Child seats cannot be in a seat that is offset more than 18* from the fuselage. This means that all child restraint systems are not allowed in the forward most cabin of 767-300s, 777-200s (edit: see below), or 777-300s. Whether or not someone would catch this rule (as it's a rather new one for FAs and GAs) is a separate matter, of course.
Edit: The manual's restriction applies on the 76A, 76N (767-300s); the 77E, 77J, 77K, 77Q, 77R (777-200s) and the 77W (777-300). I think the fleet updates thread has the information as to what the fleet codes mean.
Edit: The manual's restriction applies on the 76A, 76N (767-300s); the 77E, 77J, 77K, 77Q, 77R (777-200s) and the 77W (777-300). I think the fleet updates thread has the information as to what the fleet codes mean.
Last edited by fatlasercat; Jun 5, 2019 at 11:22 pm
Jun 6, 2019, 8:18 am
#50
Join Date: Nov 2014
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To OP- if you are wanting to fly business class with your child, you most likely won't be able to have them in their car seat. I recommend that you call UA and ask for a refund of your child's ticket due to aircraft type change then ask to be put in a row with a bassinet if you child can't sit up by his/her self, this way you can have a lap child and still fly business.
If your child is older (20+ LBS) you could look at getting a CARES device which provides a more safe harness for the child (and is FAA approved), although I don't know if LH will let you use it.
I know MatthewLAX on here has written extensively about traveling with his child in business class when he was under 2.
Which 757s have rear facing seats???
If your child is older (20+ LBS) you could look at getting a CARES device which provides a more safe harness for the child (and is FAA approved), although I don't know if LH will let you use it.
I know MatthewLAX on here has written extensively about traveling with his child in business class when he was under 2.
Not sure why you would think that.
JV is a business arrange, means nothing to the customer,
also clearly posted on UA's website
JV is a business arrange, means nothing to the customer,
also clearly posted on UA's website
Child safety seats or restraint systems are also not permitted in first class on three-cabin 767 or 777-200 aircraft, on 757-200 aircraft with rear-facing seats, or in United Polaris® business class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 6, 2019 at 8:22 am Reason: repaired quote
Jun 6, 2019, 8:26 am
#51
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Jun 6, 2019, 9:10 am
#53
Join Date: Feb 2015
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It seems to me that United is in violation of FAA §§ 121.311 (b)(2)(i), 125.211(b)(2)(i), 135.128(a)(2)(i), no operator may prohibit a child (an individual who has not reached his or her 18th birthday) from using an approved CRS when a seat is purchased for the child, the child is accompanied by a parent or guardian and the child is within the weight limits for the CRS.
Jun 6, 2019, 9:12 am
#54
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Apparently UA doesn't allow that in any lie-flat seat.
Jun 6, 2019, 1:27 pm
#55
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The FA manual says that 777-300 front cabin is part of the FAA ban in carseats in oblique seats at more than an 18 degree angle from the aircraft centerline. It doesn't mention the the forward facing seats.
I got a call back from Oscar's office and they said the reason carseats are banned even in Polaris forward facing seats is because the FAA bans carseats in aisle seats.
This is of course nonsense, the FAA only bans carseats in seats where they may block other seats from exiting during an emergency.
The ban will be extended for all Polaris seating, so if you want an infant in business class you'll have to hold the child. That's less safe for everyone in business class and means the child won't sleep as well either.
They had no answer for why United.com still hasn't been updated with this info.
I reached out to Jan Brown of United flight 232 to pick her brain about this development, but unfortunately she's not doing too well right now
I've filled a DoT complaint against United for violating §§ 121.311 (b)(2)(i), 125.211(b)(2)(i), 135.128(a)(2)(i) with this policy. Doubt I'll get anywhere, but not sure what else I can do.
I got a call back from Oscar's office and they said the reason carseats are banned even in Polaris forward facing seats is because the FAA bans carseats in aisle seats.
This is of course nonsense, the FAA only bans carseats in seats where they may block other seats from exiting during an emergency.
The ban will be extended for all Polaris seating, so if you want an infant in business class you'll have to hold the child. That's less safe for everyone in business class and means the child won't sleep as well either.
They had no answer for why United.com still hasn't been updated with this info.
I reached out to Jan Brown of United flight 232 to pick her brain about this development, but unfortunately she's not doing too well right now
I've filled a DoT complaint against United for violating §§ 121.311 (b)(2)(i), 125.211(b)(2)(i), 135.128(a)(2)(i) with this policy. Doubt I'll get anywhere, but not sure what else I can do.
(c) (2) (iii) would seem to say they have to allow the car seat
(c) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, the following prohibitions apply to certificate holders:
(2) Except as required in paragraph (c)(1) of this section, no certificate holder may prohibit a child, if requested by the child's parent, guardian, or designated attendant, from occupying a child restraint system furnished by the child's parent, guardian, or designated attendant provided -
(iii) The requirements of paragraph (b)(2)(iii) of this section are met; and
BUT that references (b) (2) (iii) which in (b) (2) (iii) (A) says:
(b) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board an airplane operated under this part shall occupy an approved seat or berth with a separate safety belt properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing. A safety belt provided for the occupant of a seat may not be used by more than oneperson who has reached his or her second birthday. Notwithstanding the preceding requirements, a child may
(2) Notwithstanding any other requirement of this chapter, occupy an approved child restraint system furnished by the certificate holder or one of the persons described in paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, provided:
(iii) The certificate holder complies with the following requirements:
(A) The restraint system must be properly secured to an approved forward-facing seat or berth;
Which gives them an out in the case of non-forward facing seats.
Jun 6, 2019, 4:37 pm
#56
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In 121.311 there are a few other sections that are relevant here:
(c) (2) (iii) would seem to say they have to allow the car seat
(c) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, the following prohibitions apply to certificate holders:
(2) Except as required in paragraph (c)(1) of this section, no certificate holder may prohibit a child, if requested by the child's parent, guardian, or designated attendant, from occupying a child restraint system furnished by the child's parent, guardian, or designated attendant provided -
(iii) The requirements of paragraph (b)(2)(iii) of this section are met; and
BUT that references (b) (2) (iii) which in (b) (2) (iii) (A) says:
(b) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board an airplane operated under this part shall occupy an approved seat or berth with a separate safety belt properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing. A safety belt provided for the occupant of a seat may not be used by more than oneperson who has reached his or her second birthday. Notwithstanding the preceding requirements, a child may
(2) Notwithstanding any other requirement of this chapter, occupy an approved child restraint system furnished by the certificate holder or one of the persons described in paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, provided:
(iii) The certificate holder complies with the following requirements:
(A) The restraint system must be properly secured to an approved forward-facing seat or berth;
Which gives them an out in the case of non-forward facing seats.
(c) (2) (iii) would seem to say they have to allow the car seat
(c) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, the following prohibitions apply to certificate holders:
(2) Except as required in paragraph (c)(1) of this section, no certificate holder may prohibit a child, if requested by the child's parent, guardian, or designated attendant, from occupying a child restraint system furnished by the child's parent, guardian, or designated attendant provided -
(iii) The requirements of paragraph (b)(2)(iii) of this section are met; and
BUT that references (b) (2) (iii) which in (b) (2) (iii) (A) says:
(b) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board an airplane operated under this part shall occupy an approved seat or berth with a separate safety belt properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing. A safety belt provided for the occupant of a seat may not be used by more than oneperson who has reached his or her second birthday. Notwithstanding the preceding requirements, a child may
(2) Notwithstanding any other requirement of this chapter, occupy an approved child restraint system furnished by the certificate holder or one of the persons described in paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, provided:
(iii) The certificate holder complies with the following requirements:
(A) The restraint system must be properly secured to an approved forward-facing seat or berth;
Which gives them an out in the case of non-forward facing seats.
UA is in violation of FAA policy by not allowing carseats in these seats. I've reached out to Jan Brown via email and she 100% agrees with my assessment, but she has given up hope in the FAA caring to enforce their policies until another tragedy forces their hand.
Jun 6, 2019, 7:59 pm
#57
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1/2 of Polaris are forward facing seats, but UA has banned carseats in all of Polaris.
UA is in violation of FAA policy by not allowing carseats in these seats. I've reached out to Jan Brown via email and she 100% agrees with my assessment, but she has given up hope in the FAA caring to enforce their policies until another tragedy forces their hand.
UA is in violation of FAA policy by not allowing carseats in these seats. I've reached out to Jan Brown via email and she 100% agrees with my assessment, but she has given up hope in the FAA caring to enforce their policies until another tragedy forces their hand.
Jun 27, 2019, 7:13 pm
#58
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Any tips on traveling in Polaris with a 2yr old toddler? Too old to be a lap child, but too small to sit on her own without a harness/child seat. Since child seats and CARES harnesses aren't allowed in Polaris, but 2 yr old children are allowed, how is this handled?
May 3, 2021, 9:18 pm
#59
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
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I have a ~23-month-old daughter who will be flying with me in J in a 763 (767s in LIH, neat!). It seems that all 763s have been converted to the all-aisle-access new Polaris seats (1-1-1), although the seat map is still showing the old Diamond seats (2-1-2), which I am hopeful for.
I would like her to sit in her child car seat, but https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...s/infants.html says: "Child safety seats or restraint systems also aren’t permitted in United Polaris® business class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft, including those with rear-facing seats." However, https://www.dansdeals.com/points-tra...l-aviv-newark/ says that flight attendants do sometimes allow car seats. Does anyone have recent experiences or advice?
I would like her to sit in her child car seat, but https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...s/infants.html says: "Child safety seats or restraint systems also aren’t permitted in United Polaris® business class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft, including those with rear-facing seats." However, https://www.dansdeals.com/points-tra...l-aviv-newark/ says that flight attendants do sometimes allow car seats. Does anyone have recent experiences or advice?
Last edited by jjj8; May 3, 2021 at 10:41 pm Reason: clarity
May 3, 2021, 9:24 pm
#60
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I have a ~23-month-old daughter who will be flying with me in J in a 763 (767s in LIH, neat!). It seems that all 763s have been converted to the all-aisle-access new Polaris seats (1-1-1), although the seat map is still showing the old Diamond seats (2-1-2).
1. I would like her to sit in her child car seat, but https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...s/infants.html says: "Child safety seats or restraint systems also aren’t permitted in United Polaris® business class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft, including those with rear-facing seats." However, https://www.dansdeals.com/points-tra...l-aviv-newark/ says that flight attendants do sometimes allow car seats. Does anyone have recent experiences or advice?
2. Even if a car seat is allowed, if the plane ends up being 1-1-1 new Polaris, that would be bad because I would be far away from my daughter. I guess I don't really have a question here, but...yeah.
1. I would like her to sit in her child car seat, but https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...s/infants.html says: "Child safety seats or restraint systems also aren’t permitted in United Polaris® business class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft, including those with rear-facing seats." However, https://www.dansdeals.com/points-tra...l-aviv-newark/ says that flight attendants do sometimes allow car seats. Does anyone have recent experiences or advice?
2. Even if a car seat is allowed, if the plane ends up being 1-1-1 new Polaris, that would be bad because I would be far away from my daughter. I guess I don't really have a question here, but...yeah.
Also, not all 767-300 have been converted to the new Polaris seat yet. Although, depending on when you are flying, that may change.