May 1, 2021, 4:06 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is "Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
The details:
Award travel updates
Introducing a broader range of award prices
Updates to award travel are on the horizon. For flights on or after November 15, 2019, we’ll no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for each flight.The details:
- Some award prices will be lower than what’s currently published in our chart. You may have already seen these prices, and you’ll be able to get them immediately.
- Other award prices may be higher than what you see today, especially if you’re traveling at a popular time. These prices will take effect immediately for travel November 15 or after.
- Starting November 15, we’re removing close-in fees, so you won’t be charged the extra fee of up to $75 for booking last-minute award travel.
- A flexible award travel calendar is available on united.com or in our app.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is changing?
For travel on or after November 15, we will no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for award flights. Award pricing will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors, including demand. Additionally, starting November 15, we will no longer charge a fee of up to $75 for award flights booked within 21 days of departure.When will these updates take effect?
The award pricing changes apply immediately to flights on or after November 15, 2019. Until then, award prices will be the same as or lower than what’s currently published in our award chart.How many miles will I need for award travel after November 15?
Award prices will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors. Some air awards will be available for less than what’s listed in our chart, which you may have already noticed. After November 15, award prices may also be higher, especially if you’re traveling at popular times. Use our flexible award calendar to get a monthly view of the award prices for a specific destination.Why are you making these changes?
Increasing award prices for the most in-demand flights allows us to offer better returns for our shareholders. If your award travel is flexible, these updates will help you make the most of your miles.How will these updates affect award travel availability?
United MileagePlus members with Premier® status and qualifying United Chase Cardmembers can continue to book award travel without blackout dates. For other members, most award flights that are available today will continue to be available after these updates take effect.Do the lowest-priced awards have any extra flight restrictions?
No. Our lowest priced awards do not have any added restrictions; the fare rules for all award travel apply.How can I find the lowest priced award for my travel?
The award calendar on united.com or in our app will continue to show the lowest available price for your destination.Will I earn miles on my flight if I book an award?
No. As with current award bookings, award travel in the future will not be eligible to earn miles with MileagePlus or any other loyalty program.What if I need to change my existing award?
If you need to change your award ticket, you will be issued a new ticket for which new pricing and additional fees may apply.What if I purchase a close-in award before November 15
The close-in booking fee will still apply to all tickets booked within 21 days of departure prior to November 15, 2019. We will not refund fees paid prior to November 15, even if travel occurs on or after November 15.
"Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
Apr 16, 2019, 9:05 pm
#1021
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: UA GS, Marriott LT Platinum, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 55
You know, the ones who have 40+ credit cards primarily for the sign up bonuses and have corporate cards that they "max out" each and every month so that at the end of the year they've accumulated 2,000,000 miles. They then book a ton of award travel never spending a nickel with the airline. Meanwhile us loyal elites who do 100,000+ BIS each and only earn a measly 150,000 miles are lucky if a milage upgrade we applied clears! The influencers get the caviar and us loyalist get the scraps. What a deal!
Look I'm not faulting them. Heck, I've got a couple of credit cards in my name partly for that purpose. What I do have a problem is how BISness travellers aren't getting prioritized over the plastic-necks!
Safe Travels,
James
Look I'm not faulting them. Heck, I've got a couple of credit cards in my name partly for that purpose. What I do have a problem is how BISness travellers aren't getting prioritized over the plastic-necks!
Safe Travels,
James
Apr 16, 2019, 9:13 pm
#1022
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: AS 75K, DL Silver, UA Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Platinum + LT Gold
Posts: 10,501
1) paid premium cabin flyers
2) credit card users
Apr 16, 2019, 9:18 pm
#1023
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,452
Taking all the recent changes together, it seems like UA is really doubling down on focusing on corporate contracts. None of the things that we consider devaluations (BE, PQD changes, PQM on P fares, Polaris 'enhancements', dynamic award pricing) would be likely to have a negative effect on contracts, so a lot of business travelers are going to be stuck on UA despite the degraded experience. All of this effects the frequent leisure traveler far more, so UA added PE to cushion the blow for international, and hey, at least you aren't in the BE underclass domestic! And if that isn't enough to keep you, well, no big loss.
The whole 'President of California' and the associated data leak seem to support my hypothesis, and I wouldn't be surprised if all these changes and devals are accompanied by some pretty aggressive marketing on the corporate side.
The whole 'President of California' and the associated data leak seem to support my hypothesis, and I wouldn't be surprised if all these changes and devals are accompanied by some pretty aggressive marketing on the corporate side.
Apr 16, 2019, 9:19 pm
#1024
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
The other makes certain benefits available only to people who log actual miles and spend actual money.
Airlines are aware of this divide- it's the RDM's / status divide- but they allow bleedover by allowing credit card holders to obtain benefits that should accrue to status.
The problem is, having sold so many points, and given the bleedover, they have put themselves in the position where they can't devalue the credit card holders without also hurting FF'ers whom they shouldn't want to hurt.
Apr 16, 2019, 9:22 pm
#1025
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
Agree. Except I would call PE a negative for personally funded travelers. It's becoming clear that UA's intent is to sell very expensive ($3k+) O and A fares to corporate travelers, who will then have priority for J upgrades over 1Ks who purchase W fares. As time goes on, I think we will increasingly recognize this as a major devaluation of 1K status, rendering GPUs even less valuable to those not flying on OPM.
It will be priced according to yield management just like anything else.
Apr 16, 2019, 9:32 pm
#1026
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: AS 75K, DL Silver, UA Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Platinum + LT Gold
Posts: 10,501
I think PE has a lot simpler explanation- there are a lot of well off professionals who won't pay thousands more for J but who will pay to get out of 10 across and skimpy meals Y. PE is thus a big moneymaker.
It will be priced according to yield management just like anything else.
It will be priced according to yield management just like anything else.
Apr 16, 2019, 10:28 pm
#1027
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,452
Only travelers on OPM flying under a corporate travel policy will pay $4k for a PE seat.
Apr 16, 2019, 10:45 pm
#1028
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
- Award Availability by Premier Status
- Upgrade Availability by Premier Status
- CPU/Upgrade Availability on Award Tickets : UA Awards on Aeroplan/Other *Partners Only
- Award Pricing by Number of Miles (i.e. credit card spend)
Safe Travels,
James
Apr 16, 2019, 10:58 pm
#1029
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,720
Let's be sure to point out that the biggest losers here are those of us who book TATL/TPAC business class saver awards. I still see a ton of award space to Europe this summer for those who want economy class seats, and I would expect the same in the slower fall and winter seasons.
Not sure I accept that premise. PQD was/is not a problem for elites who fly refundable tix and biz class on OPM (employer $$) and the RDM based on spend actually benefitted some of us, especially those who fly on Biz fares. But YES, there is always a lot of "I'm outta here" when we see a dramatic devaluation in any program. But there is a difference between "I am 100% gone" (which I agree is rare) and "I am no longer incentivized to choose UA, even when the price is higher" By eliminating its advantage with MP awards, UA is going to lose people who have better options for RDM and people who flew UA because they didn't want worthless skypesos. Even elites may decide they can buy F cheaper on AS, B6 and others. UA will also lose people who fly other *A carriers and credit miles to UA (a big profit center as UA sells miles to those airlines). For example I'm flying TAP in paid C this summer. Why should I credit to UA when I don't need UA elite perks on this flight and don't need EQM? May very well select another option where my RDM will go farther.
You don't seem to understand that it is a combination of factors. To date I choose UA because of all these factors (except BE - I would never buy it as I'm better off on WN). But over past few years, I've lost most of the upgrades I used to get on UA and CO domestic routes, award change fee waivers (as Plat), and steady decrease in ability to find TATL business class saver award seats (and never a UA domestic connection to gateway in F). So what's left, E+ and a lot of nonstop flights from SFO?? Yes these are valuable but many trips require connections and UA is not the only option or the cheapest option. I have occasionally used 12.5k awards on expensive short-haul domestic tickets (e.g. Aspen in ski season) - if these are gone then I will be too.
It's pointless to blame the credit card bloggers and hackers. They don't get elite perks (no EQM from all the free tix) and they usually book the *A partners as they prefer that product. Rather the blame lies with us for buying the product without demanding transparency or honesty, or alternatively for knowing that the emperor has no clothes and yet continuing to worship him.
Absent a mass shift to cash rebate or ChaseUR/Amex/Citi, I don't see the airline execs making any changes as they laugh all the way to the bank.
Really the only question is when will the next shoe fall on partner redemptions?
We've heard this story before, if UA starts requiring PQD to qualify for Premier Status I'm gone.... people are still here. Then, if UA removes away the free stopover feature I'm outta here...people are still here. Then, if UA reduces the accrual rate on Biz fares I'm gone... you guessed it still here! Now UA is potentially devaluing their award chart, I'll be so bold and predict that people will still be here and remain loyal. When there's just 3 legacies remaining it makes it easier for them to cooperate to enhance the experience across the pond. It's only a matter of time before AA makes similar enhancements to their programme.
The reason people choose to be loyal to UA is varied and I can guarantee you none of them have to do with the award availability of their program. Most are loyal to an airline because they are a captive flyer (i.e. UA for SFO, AA for DFW, DL for ATL), the fares are cheap and the amount of actual benefits they can expect from the FFP. In my case I'm loyal to UA because of the E+ seating and lounge access provided when I fly my $300 USD Basic Economy flights across the puddle to California. I could have chosen BA or some other airline but it would be more difficult for me to achieve status let alone reap the benefits when I fly them due to how restrictive BA's program is for elites (a story for another day).
That being said, if UA were to change the actual loyalty part of the program (i.e. not influencer miles used to book free tickets) such as removing the PQD waiver for Canadians or changing the PQM accrual of K fares, then I'll reconsider my options. At the end of the day, pushing those influencers and travel hackers out of the room is a sign of progress for this Gold member who is getting sick and tired of seeing their ilk plug up the lounges when I've got a 13 hour flight on a K fare!
Absent a mass shift to cash rebate or ChaseUR/Amex/Citi, I don't see the airline execs making any changes as they laugh all the way to the bank.
Really the only question is when will the next shoe fall on partner redemptions?
Apr 16, 2019, 11:31 pm
#1030
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
Nonsense.
Only travelers on OPM flying under a corporate travel policy will pay $4k for a PE seat.
non sequitur
Only travelers on OPM flying under a corporate travel policy will pay $4k for a PE seat.
non sequitur
Apr 16, 2019, 11:39 pm
#1031
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,141
Let's be sure to point out that the biggest losers here are those of us who book TATL/TPAC business class saver awards...
... steady decrease in ability to find TATL business class saver award seats...
Absent a mass shift to cash rebate or ChaseUR/Amex/Citi, I don't see the airline execs making any changes as they laugh all the way to the bank.
... steady decrease in ability to find TATL business class saver award seats...
Absent a mass shift to cash rebate or ChaseUR/Amex/Citi, I don't see the airline execs making any changes as they laugh all the way to the bank.
As I have mentioned before, I don't think that the concept of saver awards can continue. And, with UA's new program of dynamic pricing, I cannot see a scenario in which one could waitlist for a lower-priced award. Poof! Gone is the hope of a modestly-priced dream vacation. And with that, gone are the hoards of loyal-UA fliers who have other options.
I've been putting 95% of our family spend on UR cards, and just got a much better international itinerary using the UR points than I could have obtained from UA.
Apr 17, 2019, 12:10 am
#1032
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,452
Apr 17, 2019, 1:48 am
#1033
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NBO/ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 188
I might add that the corporate travel policies create some strange incentives for those of us not flying on OPM. For example, PE EWR-FRA r/t next week is $2850 nonstop on LH or UA, but routing via IAD puts you up front for the same price. Week after, UA nonstop PE is still ~$2500, while LH J is $2800.
(FWIW, personally, I would fly Y on that route nonstop.)
Apr 17, 2019, 2:24 am
#1034
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
YMMV on Fares
If you have the luxury of working in a business that lets you book travel months in advance, and lets you choose whatever routing and departure airport you want, then yes you can get $600 Y fares across either pond. Nearly all the great deals I found on flights required making the booking several months in advance. This means that I needed to have absolute certainty months in advance that I will be at the place I'm booking since the cancellation would either be impossible (Economy Basic) or negate the value of the fare (Economy). Even then, sometimes you won't find a good deal - try finding a cheap Y ticket to LAS during the first week of January. It ain't gonna happen! In the real world, where people actually hop on planes to do work not take selfies on the beach, these discount fares we see on the MR forums rarely if ever appear. Sometimes we can book a couple of days in advance, but often times that's not the case, especially if you have a major client who expects you to be **right here now** when something happens. I distinctly recall one trip where I was summoned to the office at 4 AM and 2 hours later I was at ticketing in YYZ to purchase a flight to ICN. The only tickets available were in J with 10 hour stopovers at JFK and cost several thousand dollars! What should I do then? Wait a couple days for the fares to drop? Not going to happen - our client would've been gone by then.
Often for business travel the difference between Y and PY is minor and when you think about it totally worth it for the long haul international routes like to Asia. In some cases PY was actually cheaper than the S fare due to AC being AC! In fact in many organizations employees who travel so many times international long haul are entitled to either booking a PY or J fare. For larger companies (think Fortune 500), they have negotiated contracts and flight passes set up with the major airlines with the price they ultimately end up paying being far less than what we would find on Flights or through a consolidator.
-James
Apr 17, 2019, 3:16 am
#1035
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,400