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Should UA provide a premium travel option for leisure travelers: lounges, lieflats, …

Should UA provide a premium travel option for leisure travelers: lounges, lieflats, …

Old Jan 19, 2021, 4:18 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by DELee
But it provides an opportunity, especially in airports with a shuttered UC, to acquire new members/renew members, sell Chase credit cards, etc. And, for folks wanting a more elite experience, having some planes with better seating (semi/lie flats, actual in-flight food, etc.) that turistas similar to the longer haul 772s XXX-HNL are willing to pay for.
The problem with these markets is the demand may not sufficient to fill up an A319. So why gamble?

Also - in term of credit card, there is a reason why FAs are doing this...

Originally Posted by truncated
Not to stray too far OT but AA is flying a daily 772 and another 5x weekly on JFK-MIA...
It is hub-to-hub, just like UA used 744 and/or 772 for SFO-LAX in the past.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 6:07 am
  #17  
 
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Back to lounge access for domestic premium product. OP is proposing a model similar to Alaska's. A first class passenger on paid tickets or award tickets has access to the Alaska operated lounge. Since the pandemic, Alaska still has Seattle terminal C and JFK lounges closed. May be due to lower traffic??
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 8:59 am
  #18  
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Anyone can fill an aircraft by selling seats cheap enough. But, that's a bad business model. Just ask the carriers who invested in the A380. Need cold hard data to demonstrate that by increasing capacity and adding to the hard & soft product, one can increase PRASM. If it doesn't increase PRASM, it's not worth the extra hot towels.

There is, of course, a luxury market, but history suggests that it is not that large in the leisure sector. The business sector may recover by 2024, but there is a lot of thinking that a good chunk of that is flying Air Zoom for a long time to come.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 9:28 am
  #19  
 
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Definitely is a market for everything, but may not be big enough to scale/duplicate


eg, LAX private suite opened in 2017... For private planes, or those who want privacy but flying commercially

They said they're planning to expand to miami and jfk but no dates
UA offers discounted pricing for private suite:. Private Suite @ LAX for UA

Something cheaper? Better than UC (day passe/membership) but less expensive than private suites? Tough
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 9:28 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by UA_Flyer
You made the same point I was going to make.

Being a South Florida resident since early 80s, I have witnessed various stages of air travel change.

When UA purchased Pan Am's Latin American operations in Miami back in the early to mid 90s, there were a fleet of widebodies and multiple flights between MIA and UA hub cities.
As an example:

763 between JFK and MIA
741 (later 777) between SFO and MIA
777 between IAD-MIA, LAX-MIA, DEN-MIA, ORD-MIA
There were 727/757 flights between DCA-MIA, LGA/EWR-MIA, ATL-MIA, BOS-MIA

There were multiple flights between IAD, ORD, DEN, LAX and MIA.
RCC@ MIA was the best in the system with open bar and a full buffet (not the current crackers and cheese).

There were all mostly driven by international traffic not domestic leisure traffic between hubs and MIA.
Exactly, and in most cases the widebody domestic flights operated as through service to South America (EZE, GRU, GIG, SCL), timing with northbound arrivals in the morning and southbound departures in the late evening. Even the narrowbody flights to non-hub airports (LGA, EWR, ATL, DCA) were essentially just a late night/early AM bank to feed the South America longhauls. Some exceptions, here and there, as the MIA operation evolved in the 90s, but I agree, the "premium" service was either local international or connection-oriented.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 9:55 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1
Anyone can fill an aircraft by selling seats cheap enough. But, that's a bad business model. Just ask the carriers who invested in the A380. Need cold hard data to demonstrate that by increasing capacity and adding to the hard & soft product, one can increase PRASM. If it doesn't increase PRASM, it's not worth the extra hot towels.

There is, of course, a luxury market, but history suggests that it is not that large in the leisure sector. The business sector may recover by 2024, but there is a lot of thinking that a good chunk of that is flying Air Zoom for a long time to come.
I, too, was about to make a similar point. The 747 and A380 are essentially gone, replaced by the 773 and A350 as the biggest in anyone's fleet (or soon will be). Part of the issue (IMHO only) is smaller aircraft have become so much more efficient. We've come a long way from 727s on short to mid range flights and 707s on mid to long range flights. Remember when NW flew 747s and DC10s ORD-TPA? UA even advertised their ORD-CLE service as "all DC-10".
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:12 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by DELee
But it provides an opportunity, especially in airports with a shuttered UC, to acquire new members/renew members, sell Chase credit cards, etc. And, for folks wanting a more elite experience, having some planes with better seating (semi/lie flats, actual in-flight food, etc.) that turistas similar to the longer haul 772s XXX-HNL are willing to pay for.
Originally Posted by garykung
The problem with these markets is the demand may not sufficient to fill up an A319. So why gamble?

Also - in term of credit card, there is a reason why FAs are doing this...
What is the reason flight attendants are selling the cards?
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:15 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by SPN Lifer
Originally Posted by DELee
But it provides an opportunity, especially in airports with a shuttered UC, to acquire new members/renew members, sell Chase credit cards, etc. And, for folks wanting a more elite experience, having some planes with better seating (semi/lie flats, actual in-flight food, etc.) that turistas similar to the longer haul 772s XXX-HNL are willing to pay for.
Originally Posted by garykung
The problem with these markets is the demand may not sufficient to fill up an A319. So why gamble?

Also - in term of credit card, there is a reason why FAs are doing this...
What is the reason light attendants are selling cards?
Believe that is a reference to FAs offering credit card applications
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:23 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
Believe that is a reference to FAs offering credit card applications
...because the FAs get a fiscal bounty for each card they get someone to sign up for...

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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:30 am
  #25  
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So this is one of the "benefits" of increased leisure travel levels?
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:37 am
  #26  
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Per se, no. However, if UA is really serious about handling the changes to domestic travel patterns, knowing who's flying and what they're spending, more effective marketing of existing UCs in traveled leisure destinations either via direct sales contacts as well as through Chase's United Club Infinite card are again addressing those UA travelers who want and desire a higher end experience. This is not to say that FAs couldn't also be provided with UC Infinite card applications and/or have an add to their app to get their card sales bounty.

David
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:41 am
  #27  
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IMO the whole "everyone will work from home going forward" mindset is completely overblown:
  • The US commercial real estate market is worth about $16 trillion Not all of that is class A office space, certainly, but I don't see companies writing off 20 year commercial leases and multi-million dollar campuses just yet.
  • The WSJ ran an article today about being leaving NYC but many wanting to return. https://www.wsj.com/articles/greener...share_linkedin
  • Outside of knowledge work a lot of jobs can't be done remotely which will keep many people in their current location.
  • Anecdotally, I work in a tech field and have been getting a lot of recruiters contacting me for jobs that are "remote during COVID" which certainly means they are expecting you to come into the office after COVID.
As far as lounges go the 3rd party lounge idea makes a lot of sense if an airline is starting from scratch but if they already have locations (just closed ones) then other operating dynamics are in play like who owns the space and how long the lease is. Airport design could also be a factor as well. For example while UA doesn't have a lounge here in TPA, AA and DL do. However the lounges are located airside (post security) and it wouldn't be conducive to use the lounge and fly out of a different airside.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:45 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by DELee
Per se, no. However, if UA is really serious about handling the changes to domestic travel patterns, knowing who's flying and what they're spending, more effective marketing of existing UCs in traveled leisure destinations either via direct sales contacts as well as through Chase's United Club Infinite card are again addressing those UA travelers who want and desire a higher end experience. This is not to say that FAs couldn't also be provided with UC Infinite card applications and/or have an add to their app to get their card sales bounty.

David
Anecdotal and anecdotal only but supportive of David's basic thesis. UA seems to be on a downward spiral here at BOS. Among a reasonable (~50) based of friends and colleagues who were largely United loyalists, and with SFO nonstops gone and down from 12 to 2-3 EWR for connections, there seems to be movement to JetBlue for the CA non stops, with reports of excellent soft-product service in Mint, and t those who have to connect, movement to AA again with reports of vastly superior Flagship service soft product between JFK and the west coast. Whether this is an aberration or the start of a trend who knows, but it seems to speak to the existence of leisure travelers who are willing to pay for premium service and are willing to go across airline boundaries they haven't before
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:54 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by JimInOhio
...Remember when NW flew 747s and DC10s ORD-TPA?...
Dominant a/c on domestic routes to/from the Hawaiian Islands is now single-aisle (vs 1970s). A lot of that has to do with move to 2-engine over-the-water a/c, but not even long leisure routes to more expensive destinations don't warrant a lot of wide-bodies.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:57 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by DELee
Per se, no. However, if UA is really serious about handling the changes to domestic travel patterns, knowing who's flying and what they're spending, more effective marketing of existing UCs in traveled leisure destinations either via direct sales contacts as well as through Chase's United Club Infinite card are again addressing those UA travelers who want and desire a higher end experience. This is not to say that FAs couldn't also be provided with UC Infinite card applications and/or have an add to their app to get their card sales bounty.

David
I doubt that lounge access to something such as a UC moves the leisure luxury needle in the least.

Lounges have not been a part of the US flying expectation since before de-regulation (1983) and I've never seen or even heard that there exists any reliable data to the contrary.
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