Using a half face respirator on UA flight?
Oct 27, 2020, 4:35 pm
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Out of curiosity, from the point of view of the person wearing the mask, is there some kind of benefit to using mask with a valve and covering it with a surgical mask rather than just using a mask without a valve?
I have both valved and non-valved N95s, just curious if there's some reason one would choose to wear valve + covering rather than just non-valve.
I have both valved and non-valved N95s, just curious if there's some reason one would choose to wear valve + covering rather than just non-valve.
Oct 29, 2020, 9:58 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2018
Programs: UA
Posts: 104
Valved masks make the exhale easier. Even covered with a surgical you're only adding another layer of melt blown fabric resisting your exhales, as opposed to breathing out of a non-valved N95 which is going through at least 3 layers of melt blown fabric.
Nov 13, 2020, 11:18 pm
#63
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Earth (non-US)
Programs: NW Gold->CO->UA->DL PM
Posts: 1,338
Out of curiosity, from the point of view of the person wearing the mask, is there some kind of benefit to using mask with a valve and covering it with a surgical mask rather than just using a mask without a valve?
I have both valved and non-valved N95s, just curious if there's some reason one would choose to wear valve + covering rather than just non-valve.
I have both valved and non-valved N95s, just curious if there's some reason one would choose to wear valve + covering rather than just non-valve.
A better solution than what's been discussed above is to simply wear a surgical mask BELOW/UNDERNEATH the respirator, at which point the rubber seal on the respirator will force all inhales and exhales through the surgical mask gauze. (If you have a proper filter on the inside of the valve, this will make breathing in both directions extra fun work, of course, but will ensure very good filtering in the incoming direction, and far better outgoing filtering than anything without a seal).
Nov 14, 2020, 3:55 am
#64
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Plat MM, CM Plat, Amex Plat, Hertz CP, Hyatt Globalist, SPG Gold, Vons Club
Posts: 6,850
I don’t know about you but I kind of like the disposable blue masks and change them out every day.Some people that have the cloth masks looks like they haven’t washed them or change them in over a month
Nov 14, 2020, 4:09 am
#65
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
FWIW this discussion had been / started out about respirators, which are generally N100 gear. A properly fitted respirator has no leakage in or out at the sides, unlike a N95 mask. (And yeah... there's nothing like seeing someone with a valve on a N95, which makes breathing out more comfortable but defeats the purpose of filtering output).
A better solution than what's been discussed above is to simply wear a surgical mask BELOW/UNDERNEATH the respirator, at which point the rubber seal on the respirator will force all inhales and exhales through the surgical mask gauze. (If you have a proper filter on the inside of the valve, this will make breathing in both directions extra fun work, of course, but will ensure very good filtering in the incoming direction, and far better outgoing filtering than anything without a seal).
A better solution than what's been discussed above is to simply wear a surgical mask BELOW/UNDERNEATH the respirator, at which point the rubber seal on the respirator will force all inhales and exhales through the surgical mask gauze. (If you have a proper filter on the inside of the valve, this will make breathing in both directions extra fun work, of course, but will ensure very good filtering in the incoming direction, and far better outgoing filtering than anything without a seal).
Nov 14, 2020, 9:35 am
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
FWIW this discussion had been / started out about respirators, which are generally N100 gear. A properly fitted respirator has no leakage in or out at the sides, unlike a N95 mask. (And yeah... there's nothing like seeing someone with a valve on a N95, which makes breathing out more comfortable but defeats the purpose of filtering output).
A better solution than what's been discussed above is to simply wear a surgical mask BELOW/UNDERNEATH the respirator, at which point the rubber seal on the respirator will force all inhales and exhales through the surgical mask gauze. (If you have a proper filter on the inside of the valve, this will make breathing in both directions extra fun work, of course, but will ensure very good filtering in the incoming direction, and far better outgoing filtering than anything without a seal).
A better solution than what's been discussed above is to simply wear a surgical mask BELOW/UNDERNEATH the respirator, at which point the rubber seal on the respirator will force all inhales and exhales through the surgical mask gauze. (If you have a proper filter on the inside of the valve, this will make breathing in both directions extra fun work, of course, but will ensure very good filtering in the incoming direction, and far better outgoing filtering than anything without a seal).
Nov 14, 2020, 10:14 am
#67
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,353
It also has the advantage of looking "normal" (a solid mask covering the expected part of the face); the fact that there's something behind it isn't going to draw much attention (nor should it). Even if you notice, it's pretty clear that the person wearing it has the right idea and intention if they show up with it like that (vs grudgingly adding the surgical mask only when challenged). While a respirator with a mask somehow taped to the outlet may be just as or more effective, it is harder for someone to glance and see that it's "right" and to evaluate whether it actually is covering the right places and will be maintained/fixed if it comes loose, etc. The report of a family wearing them and only offering to cover the outlets *after* being told they weren't acceptable bears that out.
Nov 14, 2020, 11:56 am
#68
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Earth (non-US)
Programs: NW Gold->CO->UA->DL PM
Posts: 1,338
Hmm. I wonder what the motivation of this comment is?
At this point.. let's see ... call it start of November, I've been wearing PPE in a variety of contexts since the beginning of February... 9 months, say roughly an average of 6 hours a day, 6 days a week ...
9 x 4 x 6 x 6, about 1080 hours or so with a respirator pushing into my face. (Probably significantly longer, as I'm not accounting for longer days).
Does that ring around my mouth and nose result from the seal actually being glued to my skin? No it doesn't. Is it sometimes a bit stuck, after 10 hours? why yes it is.
I've also noticed that unless it's really tight, (improperly fitted), exhaling quickly will cause it to burp air through the seals, so you have to learn to pace breathing. (Putting a mask underneath seems to actually lower this tendency, possibly due to a little leakage).
Without anyone doing a comparative study and getting it past peer review, it seems obvious to me that while not a 100% sealed solution, it is several orders of magnitude better than a simple surgical mask, which is highly leaky and forms no seal. And when evidence strongly suggests that respiratory contact is the primary vector of transmission ...
At this point.. let's see ... call it start of November, I've been wearing PPE in a variety of contexts since the beginning of February... 9 months, say roughly an average of 6 hours a day, 6 days a week ...
9 x 4 x 6 x 6, about 1080 hours or so with a respirator pushing into my face. (Probably significantly longer, as I'm not accounting for longer days).
Does that ring around my mouth and nose result from the seal actually being glued to my skin? No it doesn't. Is it sometimes a bit stuck, after 10 hours? why yes it is.
I've also noticed that unless it's really tight, (improperly fitted), exhaling quickly will cause it to burp air through the seals, so you have to learn to pace breathing. (Putting a mask underneath seems to actually lower this tendency, possibly due to a little leakage).
Without anyone doing a comparative study and getting it past peer review, it seems obvious to me that while not a 100% sealed solution, it is several orders of magnitude better than a simple surgical mask, which is highly leaky and forms no seal. And when evidence strongly suggests that respiratory contact is the primary vector of transmission ...
Nov 14, 2020, 6:50 pm
#69
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 1,079
That is one possible reasonable interpretation, but if everyone could come up with their own reasonable interpretations of rules, then rules as written would mean noting. That is why it is best to go by the plain language of rules.
In this case, the plain language does not imply a patchwork in which part of the face can be covered with one device which has vents and that those vents can be covered with another device which has no vents. The plain language of the rule implies one device with no vents that covers the nose and the mouth. If someone wants to put something under or over that one device; fine. But cobbling together a patchwork doesn't seem to fit within the plain language of the rule. The analogy is saying that gentleman are expected to wear pants in the dining room and swimwear is not acceptable attire. Someone walks in wearing swim shorts under their pants; that would obviously be fine. Showing up in a Speedo, dress shoes and a polo would probably not be acceptable attire.
In this case, the plain language does not imply a patchwork in which part of the face can be covered with one device which has vents and that those vents can be covered with another device which has no vents. The plain language of the rule implies one device with no vents that covers the nose and the mouth. If someone wants to put something under or over that one device; fine. But cobbling together a patchwork doesn't seem to fit within the plain language of the rule. The analogy is saying that gentleman are expected to wear pants in the dining room and swimwear is not acceptable attire. Someone walks in wearing swim shorts under their pants; that would obviously be fine. Showing up in a Speedo, dress shoes and a polo would probably not be acceptable attire.
What about the speedos with a see through pants? Would that be ok?
What if I wear the pants on one leg and have the other dangling? Would that be ok?
Form my reading of UA’s rules, it is clear that masks with vents don’t cut it. Some FAs will be fine for you to cover the vent with a mask. Others won’t. Roll the die and hope for the best or read the simple language and go with a mask with no vents.
Nov 15, 2020, 4:54 pm
#70
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I have to wonder how many of the people who have been banned on UA and other carriers are simply people who were just testing the system to see how far they could go. And then found out.
Nov 15, 2020, 5:49 pm
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Highly unlikely someone would get banned just for that. You only get banned after numerous warnings from crew and continued lack of cooperation.
Nov 22, 2020, 11:54 am
#72
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 812
I ended up wearing a half-face respirator with a surgical mask taped over the vent, and a scarf wrapped around the outside of everything. No issues.
Dec 23, 2020, 4:27 am
#73
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Mexico City
Programs: Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, Marriot Gold, IHG Silver, Choice Platinum, Wyndham Gold
Posts: 3,847
I have a flight tomorrow on a different airline. That flight will be completely full. I'm back to wearing my half-face respirator now and indefinitely as the death count soars around the world, especially with the more easily transmission of the new strains from South Africa and the UK.
******
Completed my flight. There was a recorded announcement before the flight (Aeromexico) took off, that said if you are experiencing any sneezing or coughing, please contact a crew member.
Three people were coughing and not one flight attendant approached them. They coughed throughout the entire flight.
When I get my review email, I'm definitely mentioning this. The flight attendants were negligent in their duties and the passengers lied about no having a cough or recent sneezing episode on the mandates health form.
I was so happy I wore my respirator and goggles the entire flight, opposed to everyone else taking their limited protection off to eat. I also had the above seat fan blowing away any particles that might have ventured my way.
I only have one more flight and I'll be done until May. With or without a respirator, it's very nerve reckoning flying with numerous people coughing 😷
******
Completed my flight. There was a recorded announcement before the flight (Aeromexico) took off, that said if you are experiencing any sneezing or coughing, please contact a crew member.
Three people were coughing and not one flight attendant approached them. They coughed throughout the entire flight.
When I get my review email, I'm definitely mentioning this. The flight attendants were negligent in their duties and the passengers lied about no having a cough or recent sneezing episode on the mandates health form.
I was so happy I wore my respirator and goggles the entire flight, opposed to everyone else taking their limited protection off to eat. I also had the above seat fan blowing away any particles that might have ventured my way.
I only have one more flight and I'll be done until May. With or without a respirator, it's very nerve reckoning flying with numerous people coughing 😷
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 25, 2020 at 11:19 am Reason: merging consecutive / update posts by the same member