Commuting FA in Tears; GA Didn't Want to Give Her Empty F Seat With No Y Available
Oct 13, 2020, 1:15 pm
#1
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Commuting FA in Tears; GA Didn't Want to Give Her Empty F Seat With No Y Available
Mods, could not find a relevant thread but please move if not appropriate as a standalone thread.
On a flight yesterday as we were about to close the door and start taxi, the GA came on-board and asked the crew if they would permit a commuting FA (who had to work ex-IAH later that evening) to sit in an empty F seat. The crew basically said "Fine with us" and a minute later on comes a very frazzled looking young FA who was clearly red-eyed and teary, who takes seat 1D (both seats 1C and 1D were empty after all upgrades cleared). After the GA closes the cabin door, the attending FA starts talking to the commuting FA about what happened (I overheard all this from 2A) and in a nutshell, the commuting FA says (paraphrasing): "I've never had this happen to me before. He refused to seat me because Y was sold out, and he refused to seat me in F. I asked him if he could move someone in Y to F to free up a seat for me in Y, but he refused that too. I have to work tonight! It would not have been the end of the world if I didn't get on this flight--I could have called in--but I have just never been treated this way by a GA before." It seems the commuting FA had to force the GA to take the issue to the crew. The attending FA seemed equally surprised at the GA's behavior.
Was the GA correct in this situation?
On a flight yesterday as we were about to close the door and start taxi, the GA came on-board and asked the crew if they would permit a commuting FA (who had to work ex-IAH later that evening) to sit in an empty F seat. The crew basically said "Fine with us" and a minute later on comes a very frazzled looking young FA who was clearly red-eyed and teary, who takes seat 1D (both seats 1C and 1D were empty after all upgrades cleared). After the GA closes the cabin door, the attending FA starts talking to the commuting FA about what happened (I overheard all this from 2A) and in a nutshell, the commuting FA says (paraphrasing): "I've never had this happen to me before. He refused to seat me because Y was sold out, and he refused to seat me in F. I asked him if he could move someone in Y to F to free up a seat for me in Y, but he refused that too. I have to work tonight! It would not have been the end of the world if I didn't get on this flight--I could have called in--but I have just never been treated this way by a GA before." It seems the commuting FA had to force the GA to take the issue to the crew. The attending FA seemed equally surprised at the GA's behavior.
Was the GA correct in this situation?
Oct 13, 2020, 1:21 pm
#2
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I'm guessing this is United Express as you mentioned a "young FA" which mainline UA should not have that many anymore.
Anyway - you learn as a nonrev traveler the GA has control over the nonrev list. Sounds like the GA wasn't in a mood to be flexible.
Anyway - you learn as a nonrev traveler the GA has control over the nonrev list. Sounds like the GA wasn't in a mood to be flexible.
Oct 13, 2020, 1:22 pm
#3
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Correct, it was UX (E 175).
Oct 13, 2020, 1:29 pm
#5
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I don't know, I didn't check the standby list in real time and now of course it just shows who cleared (both into F, btw). The seat map actually shows one empty seat in Y, for what that's worth.
Oct 13, 2020, 1:43 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I’ve seen 1D/F blocked on narrowbody flights for social distancing, where one FA sits there rather than in the front junpseat with another FA.
Not sure if that was the case on this flight but this could have been why the GA didn’t want to seat anyone in those seats.
Not sure if that was the case on this flight but this could have been why the GA didn’t want to seat anyone in those seats.
Oct 13, 2020, 1:47 pm
#7
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Correct is relative.
To the "letter" of the rules, maybe. But the spirit and the intent? Likely not. Certainly not to common sense.
My guess (and just a guess) is that it was an outsourced GA. They tend to follow "The Rulebook" much more stringently than UA-badged employees.
Maybe it's time for another 55-gallon drum?
From:: https://hbr.org/1998/09/right-away-a...ed-continental
To the "letter" of the rules, maybe. But the spirit and the intent? Likely not. Certainly not to common sense.
My guess (and just a guess) is that it was an outsourced GA. They tend to follow "The Rulebook" much more stringently than UA-badged employees.
Maybe it's time for another 55-gallon drum?
From:: https://hbr.org/1998/09/right-away-a...ed-continental
"In the past, any time an employee provided a benefit for a customer that was considered unacceptable, the bankers and lawyers running Continental would write a rule documenting the proper action. Over the years, these rules were accumulated into a book about nine inches thick known as the Thou Shalt Not book. Employees couldn’t possibly know the entire contents of the book. When in doubt, everyone knew it was advised just to let the customers fend for themselves. In early 1995, we took the Thou Shalt Not book to a company parking lot. We got a 55-gallon drum, tossed the book inside, and poured gasoline all over it. In front of a crowd of employees, we lit a match to it. Our message was this: Continental is your company to make great. Go do it—now."
Oct 13, 2020, 2:01 pm
#9
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What may have happened depends on for which airline the commuting FA worked.
If she was UAL mainline, she has to list for F to be seated in F. If you list for F, but don't clear into F, you can be seated in a lower cabin. If you list for Y that's all you can be seating in. Being seated in a higher cabin requires payment of a fee. For UAL employees, it can either be paid up front, and refunded if you don't clear, or payroll deducted after the flight. For that reason, when I commute, I always list in F.
If she was a UX employee, they must pre-pay when their list for the higher cabin. They don't have the option for payroll deduction.
If she was an employee of some other airline who was jumpseating, I'm not sure how that works. A pilot jumpseater can be put in an open F seat if Y is full but I don't know if that applies to offline FA jumpseaters. In either case, no charge would be due.
If she was an employee of another airline traveling on a ZED pass, those are only for a the cabin for which they are purchased and F ZED passes are not always available. This is the least likely, though, as a commuting offline FA would just jumpseat instead of buying a ZED pass in most circumstances.
The key would be for her to understand the rules, as they applied to her, before hand so that she'd be prepared. There just isn't time to figure it all out while the agent is trying to get the door closed and the flight out. Just like casual flyers, if you don't non-rev a lot the details can be pretty confusing.
If she was UAL mainline, she has to list for F to be seated in F. If you list for F, but don't clear into F, you can be seated in a lower cabin. If you list for Y that's all you can be seating in. Being seated in a higher cabin requires payment of a fee. For UAL employees, it can either be paid up front, and refunded if you don't clear, or payroll deducted after the flight. For that reason, when I commute, I always list in F.
If she was a UX employee, they must pre-pay when their list for the higher cabin. They don't have the option for payroll deduction.
If she was an employee of some other airline who was jumpseating, I'm not sure how that works. A pilot jumpseater can be put in an open F seat if Y is full but I don't know if that applies to offline FA jumpseaters. In either case, no charge would be due.
If she was an employee of another airline traveling on a ZED pass, those are only for a the cabin for which they are purchased and F ZED passes are not always available. This is the least likely, though, as a commuting offline FA would just jumpseat instead of buying a ZED pass in most circumstances.
The key would be for her to understand the rules, as they applied to her, before hand so that she'd be prepared. There just isn't time to figure it all out while the agent is trying to get the door closed and the flight out. Just like casual flyers, if you don't non-rev a lot the details can be pretty confusing.
Oct 13, 2020, 2:02 pm
#10
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Mods, could not find a relevant thread but please move if not appropriate as a standalone thread.
On a flight yesterday as we were about to close the door and start taxi, the GA came on-board and asked the crew if they would permit a commuting FA (who had to work ex-IAH later that evening) to sit in an empty F seat. The crew basically said "Fine with us" and a minute later on comes a very frazzled looking young FA who was clearly red-eyed and teary, who takes seat 1D (both seats 1C and 1D were empty after all upgrades cleared). After the GA closes the cabin door, the attending FA starts talking to the commuting FA about what happened (I overheard all this from 2A) and in a nutshell, the commuting FA says (paraphrasing): "I've never had this happen to me before. He refused to seat me because Y was sold out, and he refused to seat me in F. I asked him if he could move someone in Y to F to free up a seat for me in Y, but he refused that too. I have to work tonight! It would not have been the end of the world if I didn't get on this flight--I could have called in--but I have just never been treated this way by a GA before." It seems the commuting FA had to force the GA to take the issue to the crew. The attending FA seemed equally surprised at the GA's behavior.
Was the GA correct in this situation?
On a flight yesterday as we were about to close the door and start taxi, the GA came on-board and asked the crew if they would permit a commuting FA (who had to work ex-IAH later that evening) to sit in an empty F seat. The crew basically said "Fine with us" and a minute later on comes a very frazzled looking young FA who was clearly red-eyed and teary, who takes seat 1D (both seats 1C and 1D were empty after all upgrades cleared). After the GA closes the cabin door, the attending FA starts talking to the commuting FA about what happened (I overheard all this from 2A) and in a nutshell, the commuting FA says (paraphrasing): "I've never had this happen to me before. He refused to seat me because Y was sold out, and he refused to seat me in F. I asked him if he could move someone in Y to F to free up a seat for me in Y, but he refused that too. I have to work tonight! It would not have been the end of the world if I didn't get on this flight--I could have called in--but I have just never been treated this way by a GA before." It seems the commuting FA had to force the GA to take the issue to the crew. The attending FA seemed equally surprised at the GA's behavior.
Was the GA correct in this situation?
Out of curiosity... Are you sure it was A UA/UX FA? Or could it have been from OA?
Oct 13, 2020, 2:11 pm
#11
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Oct 13, 2020, 4:36 pm
#12
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Trying to catch a work duty flight out of IAH suggests UA or UAX.
Oct 13, 2020, 4:58 pm
#13
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 588
GA was in the wrong. Probably having a bad day... No reason not to let the FA on the flight, especially if all the upgrades cleared, and boarding was complete. And bizarre that she asked the crew first. I've never had that happen.
Oct 13, 2020, 5:26 pm
#14
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Would need more info, but based on my crew scheduling days, most FA's who were non-revving to pick up a trip out of base were either listed or booked a confirmed seat by the company, while if they were living out of base and commuting in, would probably be on their own non-rev/ZED listings.
Now I don't really know UA's non-rev policies since I only have experience non-revving on AA and DL, but if this was the former of my two examples, then the FA in question should've immediately called crew scheduling to get it figured out. In the past we had GA's try to deny getting one of our FA's on board even when seats were available so if it was operated by us we went over and had dispatch hold the flight until the FA got a seat. If it was the latter of my two examples, then the FA should've listed correctly, whether it was for the correct class of service or way of booking. If it was ZED then for the most part you can only list for economy, still would be the FA's fault because the airlines tell you to live in base and you run the risk of missing your work/flight if you live out of base and can't get to base in time.
Now all that being said, it could be true the GA was having a bad day and either didn't want to work or for some reason wanted to take it out on her.
Now I don't really know UA's non-rev policies since I only have experience non-revving on AA and DL, but if this was the former of my two examples, then the FA in question should've immediately called crew scheduling to get it figured out. In the past we had GA's try to deny getting one of our FA's on board even when seats were available so if it was operated by us we went over and had dispatch hold the flight until the FA got a seat. If it was the latter of my two examples, then the FA should've listed correctly, whether it was for the correct class of service or way of booking. If it was ZED then for the most part you can only list for economy, still would be the FA's fault because the airlines tell you to live in base and you run the risk of missing your work/flight if you live out of base and can't get to base in time.
Now all that being said, it could be true the GA was having a bad day and either didn't want to work or for some reason wanted to take it out on her.
Oct 13, 2020, 7:15 pm
#15
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A mainline FA on CJA can take any open seat in the cabin.
The story sounds like a commuting FA who wasn’t sure of all the rules, and I can’t necessarily fault the GA — the “new systems” may not let them force a NRSA into F