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Is United trying to pull one over on me re denying a refund on a Z fare?

Is United trying to pull one over on me re denying a refund on a Z fare?

Old Aug 24, 2020, 6:00 pm
  #1  
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Is United trying to pull one over on me re denying a refund on a Z fare?

I booked 2 tickets in Business from Newark to Delhi, India for November, 2020. One ticket I used miles for and the other I paid over $4000 for. It was a class Z. I thought when I booked it in February 2020 that you could cancel it for $400. The ticket I used miles for could be re-deposited. I called today and they confirmed that I could re-deposit the ticket I used miles for, but told me my only choice on my paid Z fare ticket was to get a travel certificate good for 2 years. I have nothing.in writing to show what I saw when I booked as to cancellation fee but would hope someone more knowledgeable to let me know if UA is trying to film flam me or if that is the rules? If Im stuck with a travel certificate, does it have to be used for a single flight, or is it like a credit that can be used until the money runs out?
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Old Aug 24, 2020, 6:38 pm
  #2  
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You might be confusing cancellation w/ a change fee. Normally, a figure of $400 refers to the cost (in new money) to use the full value ($4000+ in your case) of a cancelled or changed int'l itinerary. You don't pay $400 to get your $4000 returned to you in cash, you pay $400 in new money to use the $4000 for another ticket purchase.
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Old Aug 24, 2020, 7:26 pm
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Originally Posted by sgtpepa
...and the other I paid over $4000 for. It was a class Z. I thought when I booked it in February 2020 that you could cancel it for $400....
Yes you can cancel /reschedule for $400 fee but refundable is a different thing. And it would be unusual to have a refundable Z fare.

What you need to do is download the fare rules from united.com. (this should be an option when viewing the itin online) and look in the penalities section (or post them here). (this will reflect the terms of the ticket you purchased).
Additionally if you have any connecting flights, their fare rules are important as the most restrictive applies to the entire ticket.

However, this is likely a misunderstanding on what cancel means vs refundable -- they are not the same.
Originally Posted by sgtpepa
... If I’m stuck with a travel certificate, does it have to be used for a single flight, or is it like a credit that can be used until the money runs out?
An ETC can be used multiple times until exhuasted (but only for UA operated flights). It will be good for two years.
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Old Aug 24, 2020, 8:49 pm
  #4  
 
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https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...eptionPolicies

the change waiver should apply to OP's scenario (have to trigger cancel by august 31st)?

or wait to see if the deadline extends again, no guarantees. typically nonrefundable tickets (but cancellable), conveted to ETC have to be used within 12 months. it's only 24 months now with the current policy/waiver


do note that UA is flying EWR-DEL daily now, so chances of a cancellation/schedule change is low (unless india closes flights again)
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Old Aug 24, 2020, 8:55 pm
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Originally Posted by paperwastage
... or wait to see if the deadline extends again, no guarantees. typically nonrefundable tickets (but cancellable), conveted to ETC have to be used within 12 months. it's only 24 months now with the current policy/waiver ...
UA is already offering an ETC, but appears the OP was expecting a cash refund on cancellation.

But yes the change fee will be waived if done by 31 Aug.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Aug 24, 2020 at 9:07 pm
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Old Aug 24, 2020, 9:00 pm
  #6  
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Originally Posted by sgtpepa
I booked 2 tickets in Business from Newark to Delhi, India for November, 2020. One ticket I used miles for and the other I paid over $4000 for. It was a class Z. I thought when I booked it in February 2020 that you could cancel it for $400. The ticket I used miles for could be re-deposited. I called today and they confirmed that I could re-deposit the ticket I used miles for, but told me my only choice on my paid Z fare ticket was to get a travel certificate good for 2 years. I have nothing.in writing to show what I saw when I booked as to cancellation fee but would hope someone more knowledgeable to let me know if UA is trying to film flam me or if that is the rules? If I’m stuck with a travel certificate, does it have to be used for a single flight, or is it like a credit that can be used until the money runs out?
I very much doubt that UA is trying to flam-flam you, but it's possible the agent made a mistake. Furthermore, they couldn't even if they wanted to: if you have a refundable fare, and you initiate a refund on the website, it'll be credited to the original form of payment automatically.

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
Yes you can cancel /reschedule for $400 fee but refundable is a different thing. And it would be unusual to have a refundable Z fare.
Refundability depends upon the market.

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
What you need to do is download the fare rules from united.com. (this should be an option when viewing the itin online) and look in the penalities section (or post them here). (this will reflect the terms of the ticket you purchased).
Agree 100% -- this is the correct course of action.

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
Additionally if you have any connecting flights, their fare rules are important as the most restrictive applies to the entire ticket.
Yes; in most (not all) cases, the fare is based upon the cities where travel begins and ends, regardless of the cities where any stops occur.

Originally Posted by paperwastage
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...eptionPolicies

the change waiver should apply to OP's scenario (have to trigger cancel by august 31st)?
Yes -- a change waiver applies, but cancellation fees are not waived.

OP: I did a quick search for a Z fare for EWR-DEL that would have been current in February 2020. I don't see any with a $400 cancellation or change fee. However, the Z fares that I see are refundable, for a $500 fee, or changeable, for a $450 fee.

But the change fee is currently waived -- so, if you were to change this ticket -- say, to EWR-FLL -- the entire difference should be refunded... assuming your fare rules are the same as the ones that I found. That's why it's very important to read them.

Also, refundable vs. nonrefundable will show up on your original receipt, in the endorsements. A refundable ticket says something like CXLFEE/CHGFEE/REFUNDABLE, whereas a non-refundable fare say something like NONREF/0VALUAFTDPT/CHGFEE (I forget the exact sequences, but they're something like this). What's on your receipt?
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Old Aug 25, 2020, 8:06 am
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Originally Posted by jsloan
Also, refundable vs. nonrefundable will show up on your original receipt, in the endorsements. A refundable ticket says something like CXLFEE/CHGFEE/REFUNDABLE, whereas a non-refundable fare say something like NONREF/0VALUAFTDPT/CHGFEE (I forget the exact sequences, but they're something like this). What's on your receipt?
Great memory on the NONREF sequence (recent tickets drop the /CHGFEE endorsement but typically the order is as you listed). Slight elaboration -- the CXLFEE/CHGFEE/REFUNDABLE endorsement is for fares that are refundable with a penalty; a fully refundable (no penalty) fare will just be endorsed -/-REFUNDABLE-/- -- but those are something you generally have to go looking for/make a specific effort to book (at least without a corporate contract), and they're [virtually] never the lowest available fare, IME.

Best solution for OP as mentioned is to look at the penalties section of the fare rules for the ticket. UA may be (but isn't required to be) more generous than the fare rules but can't be less generous.
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Old Aug 25, 2020, 8:22 am
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Originally Posted by lincolnjkc
a fully refundable (no penalty) fare will just be endorsed -/-REFUNDABLE-/- -- but those are something you generally have to go looking for/make a specific effort to book (at least without a corporate contract)
While using advanced search technically qualifies as "a specific effort", that's usually all that is needed.

united.com > Advanced Search > Unrestricted fares.

There are select markets where fully unrestricted fares are generally not offered - in that case, this search method may not result in fully unrestricted fares.
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Old Aug 25, 2020, 9:44 am
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Wait until the last minute (or the last day the wavier is valid for) incase the flight gets cancelled. Otherwise, it does not sound like your ticket is refundable (unrestricted)
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Old Aug 25, 2020, 9:45 am
  #10  
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Moderator note

In order to add a bit more info as to the OP's concern, I added some detail to the thread title. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator.
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Old Aug 25, 2020, 11:04 am
  #11  
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Originally Posted by eng3
Wait until the last minute (or the last day the wavier is valid for) incase the flight gets cancelled. Otherwise, it does not sound like your ticket is refundable (unrestricted)
There's far too little information available to know. OP needs to reply with the original endorsements, fare rules, fare basis code, or, at a minimum, the entire itinerary, including dates of travel and date of purchase. Based on my initial investigation, there is an excellent chance that OP can get most of the purchase price refunded, but I can't say for sure without additional information.
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Old Aug 25, 2020, 11:23 am
  #12  
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Based on historical fares, I agree - the ticket is almost certainly refundable minus penalty, and full marks for creativity in using the change fee waiver to refund the residual
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Old Aug 26, 2020, 6:10 pm
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Originally Posted by findark
Based on historical fares, I agree - the ticket is almost certainly refundable minus penalty, and full marks for creativity in using the change fee waiver to refund the residual
+1
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Old Aug 26, 2020, 10:42 pm
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Originally Posted by findark
Based on historical fares, I agree - the ticket is almost certainly refundable minus penalty, and full marks for creativity in using the change fee waiver to refund the residual
Are you sure the OP would get the residual as a refund? In my experience, the remaining unused amount goes onto a travel credit.

I currently have three residual credits for $0.40 - $12.82 attached my M+ account for small changes I have made to my flights in the last year.
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Old Aug 26, 2020, 11:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Lori_Q
Are you sure the OP would get the residual as a refund?
If the fare is refundable, the difference should be refunded. I've personally done exactly what I suggested here, and I received a refund to my original form of payment for the difference between the original fare and my newly-booked fare.

Originally Posted by Lori_Q
In my experience, the remaining unused amount goes onto a travel credit.
That sounds like the behavior for a non-refundable fare when the residual is returned.
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