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Impacts of UA's reduced schedule on Hawaiian travelers (CARES exemption granted)

Old May 24, 2020, 2:27 pm
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Impacts of UA's reduced schedule on Hawaiian travelers (CARES exemption granted)

Old May 19, 2020, 7:49 am
  #76  
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Hmmm... I guess the thousands of UA elites are now "stranded" in Canada as well since UA cut service.
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Old May 19, 2020, 8:05 am
  #77  
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Originally Posted by AirbusFan2B
Is UA more focused on profitability than its competitors? Could UA fill a daily 737 between LAX or SFO and HNL? I donít have inside data but am speculating that Hawaii flights are among the least profitable. Might only break even if you can fill ~90%? I see UA flying a bunch of 319s and 737-700s between major business destinations in the lower 48, and those arenít full as UA is trying to get $500-1500 r/t in some cases, and AA/DL are not pricing that way.
Cranky Flier did analysis last week and UA/DL have cut back to similar levels for June, while AA cuts have not been as deep. I doubt any of them are really making any money on these flights right now (particularly with the seat blocking), so adding more flights may not make sense if you want to preserve cash. There's some talk bankruptcy may be inevitable for AA, so maybe they figure they don't really need to be cautious any more as it won't help them in the end.
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Old May 19, 2020, 8:32 am
  #78  
 
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Originally Posted by xliioper
Cranky Flier did analysis last week and UA/DL have cut back to similar levels for June, while AA cuts have not been as deep. I doubt any of them are really making any money on these flights right now (particularly with the seat blocking), so adding more flights may not make sense if you want to preserve cash. There's some talk bankruptcy may be inevitable for AA, so maybe they figure they don't really need to be cautious any more as it won't help them in the end.
Countering the middle seat blocking is their costs per seat-mile have to be as low as they've been in a very long time. Fuel is a bargain (though going up somewhat) and the crews are paid for by the government through September.
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Old May 19, 2020, 10:02 am
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by JimInOhio
Countering the middle seat blocking is their costs per seat-mile have to be as low as they've been in a very long time. Fuel is a bargain (though going up somewhat) and the crews are paid for by the government through September.
+1. Yup. I gotta laugh at the "airlines have to really stick it to people because they gotta make $$$ for the owners, respond to the market" stuff still underlying the views of many on this board. Its a cure all excuse, a get out of jail free card, for everything bad the airlines do.

The reality is that the airlines (other than Delta and AS) bleed themselves dry with stock buy backs. Had congress not stepped in with $50B in $$$$, United and AA would be in liquidation right now. Not chapter 11, but chapter 7. But instead - because we need a functional air travel system to allow people to go from point a to point b given the long distances in the US, we have gone back to a form of the pre-deregulation system, with fewer flights, and the government paying salaries and giving loans for other purposes.

Hawaii other than HNL is getting flights removed because they are 90% tourist travel and you have to go into quarantine for 14 days upon arrival. While going onto a UA flight with UA willing to pack people in middle seats is not something I will do, staying in my hotel for 14 days upon arrival is equally non-appealing.

Some of these flights will come back when Hawaii re-opens. But with 25% unemployment into the foreseeable future, tourist markets are not going to come roaring back anytime soon. And then Hawaii may need a rapid test on arrival or require proof of an anti-body test, given how weak the Hawaiian health care system is to be ready to protect themselves from the second waves of this thing.

Last edited by spin88; May 19, 2020 at 10:07 am
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Old May 19, 2020, 10:36 am
  #80  
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I actually started this thread for (normally) UA flyers to discuss flying changes due to UA withdrawal or severe service downgrade at their home airports (not only OGG). For example, I used to fly UA 90% of the time in and out of OGG w/ the other 10% a UA-ticket HA connection through HNL. It's zero since March as UA has withdrawn from OGG and has only one SFO flight out of HNL. I've flown Hawaiian for the first time EVER between Hawaii and the West Coast and a roundtrip on Delta for the first time since my Plat Medallion days in the 1990's. My June trip is on HA and the only other boked trip is on AC later this year. I have never gone this long w/o a UA trip booked.

Just flying I never though I would have done before all this started..

Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; May 19, 2020 at 11:22 am
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Old May 19, 2020, 10:54 am
  #81  
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Brand loyalty is either a thing of the past or in hibernation. Used to be multiple frequencies on each carrier. Now, may only be 1-2 flights between 3-4 carriers. So, you are stuck waiting for a couple of days or slumming it on some other carrier. Not just Hawai'i, but true for TCON and even more painfully for travel to smaller outstations.
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Old May 19, 2020, 11:01 am
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When would we expect United to make decisions about July schedules? I know they've made some but given the dynamic nature of the crisis should we expect further changes by the end of the month? Maybe June 1 after their waiver expires?
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Old May 19, 2020, 11:05 am
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Just flying I never though I would have done before all this started..
Opportunity for new experience.
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Old May 19, 2020, 11:20 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by 1KChinito
Opportunity for new experience.
Yup. HA's free hot sandwiches ain't bad (if minimal) and DL FAs can disappear as quickly and for as long as UA FAs. DL's LAX T2 is better than UA's T7.

Seeing all kinds of new things...
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Old May 19, 2020, 11:48 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by mh3265a
When would we expect United to make decisions about July schedules? I know they've made some but given the dynamic nature of the crisis should we expect further changes by the end of the month? Maybe June 1 after their waiver expires?
And after local authorities make decisions about re-opening and quarantines. That could be as soon as early June.

There is no basis for RM/IM to project, so it's all notional until a carrier sees what the demand really is.
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Old May 19, 2020, 3:11 pm
  #86  
 
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If you believe the timetables (which I most certainly do not,) daily non-stops SFO-OGG-SFO are coming back as of June 4th.

UA rebooked me onto this phantom flight for my July trip out there, which just happens to fall a few minutes shy of a 6 hour change from the original non-stop. They're obviously stalling on issuing refunds as long as possible.
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Old May 19, 2020, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by bikenski
If you believe the timetables (which I most certainly do not,) daily non-stops SFO-OGG-SFO are coming back as of June 4th.
Trying several dates in June - I don't see any June SFO-OGG nonstops - it makes sense for them to come back potentially in July if the quarantine is lifted.
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Old May 19, 2020, 4:28 pm
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Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer
Trying several dates in June - I don't see any June SFO-OGG nonstops - it makes sense for them to come back potentially in July if the quarantine is lifted.
What method are you using to search for the flights? The timetable on both the mobile app and the full website show a daily non-stop on a 738 starting June 4th.
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Old May 19, 2020, 4:42 pm
  #89  
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Originally Posted by bikenski
Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer
Trying several dates in June - I don't see any June SFO-OGG nonstops - it makes sense for them to come back potentially in July if the quarantine is lifted.
What method are you using to search for the flights? The timetable on both the mobile app and the full website show a daily non-stop on a 738 starting June 4th
You are both correct, it is shown on the schedule (shows in timetable displays) BUT not bookable (does not show for flight searches), all inventory is zero'ed out. The flight is in limbo, awaiting the next schedule update.

Per ExpertFlyer (for 4 June to 5 July dates)

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Old May 19, 2020, 4:56 pm
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
You are both correct, it is shown on the schedule (shows in timetable displays) BUT not bookable (does not show for flight searches), all inventory is zero'ed out. The flight is in limbo, awaiting the next schedule update.

Per ExpertFlyer (for 4 June to 5 July dates)

While I put at zero chance UA flies to other islands other than Oahu in June - it does make sense to have bookable flights in July in case the quarantine is lifted June 30 - I suspect we might not know the answer to that until mid-June and it may only apply to residents - not visitors.
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