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United COO to employees: Consider voluntary separation / New 2021 separation program

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United COO to employees: Consider voluntary separation / New 2021 separation program

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Old May 5, 2020, 8:56 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
yeah, and on top of that, employees have to take 50% of their vacation prior to September 30. that sucks when you are stuck at home! But, now employees are also on 4 day work weeks for M&A.
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Old May 5, 2020, 9:06 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764
If the zero-demand/zero-revenue environment is still the case in October, we are looking at a collapse of the global economy and most assuredly the end of the line for most airlines...
I'm not sure about that. I could see airlines operating at 10%-20% of capacity because people don't want to confine themselves to a small metal tube, for hours at a time, during a pandemic with a 3% fatality rate.

That doesn't mean the global economy collapses. It's just means airlines will be extremely hard hit until a vaccine is found and distributed.
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Old May 5, 2020, 9:17 am
  #33  
 
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Would it make more sense for pilots and FAs to go part time? This would help ensure junior employees still have some employment as well. It is not ideal for anyone, but I am always surprised how junior people seem to sacrifice so much so people with more years can still have a job. In most industries people across the company take pay cuts so their are fewer furloughs. I am just wondering if this is an option. I feel really awful for all the great employees at UA and think pay cuts might be able to save jobs. Best of luck to all who work at the friendly skies. I hope to fly them again soon!!
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Old May 5, 2020, 9:49 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Weatherboy
That is true with all of the stimulus programs: a one-time $1,200 payment, the $600/week extra PUA for a few months, super limited/restricted PPP, and the nearly nonexistent EIDL and it's ghost-sibling, the EIDL advance. The American government cannot afford to keep band-aiding these massive wounds indefinitely. And they surely can't prop up United or any airline until the goalpost of having a cure/vaccine is hit ...if it's even possible. And this disaster is not just with the travel industry: it is wide and deep across most. ... there's only so many levers you can pull when the economy is effectively shut down indefinitely.
Why should airlines get a different deal than any business who applied for a SBA PPP forgivable loan who are required to maintain their payroll? And now people will be let go with only basic unemployment insurance payments unless they leave on their own now and forfeit access to higher unemployment payments?
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 5, 2020 at 10:26 am Reason: removing OMNI topics
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Old May 5, 2020, 9:57 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by gmt4
How long until others announce the same thing? DL, AA, B6, WN, F9, NK? UA can't be alone in the pain.
It has to be coming IMO. Boeing announced voluntary and involuntary layoffs as well. I mean, how can UA buy planes from them if they can't even make payroll? The part that gets me is that when it's all over, has the landscape of business travel changed permanently? After 6 or 8 or 12 months of virtual meetings, do they become the norm? It's a massive cost savings even though in person meetings are more efficient (and productive IMO), so businesses may not want to return to the prior system.
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Old May 5, 2020, 10:13 am
  #36  
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While understanding the governmental financial resonse to COVID situation is ripe for discussion with CARES, PPP. .... that is a political / OMNI discussion out of scope for the UA forum, but is being discussed in Covid-19 US tax cuts or fiscal stimulus

Please let's stay focus on UA / UA employees and our travel on UA for this forum

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

This thread was started to discuss the fate of UA employees, there have been a few prior more general fate of UA threads

UA life post COVID-19 recovery
UA Viability/ Chance of Bankruptcy/ Bailout discussion in COVID-19 Era [Consolidated]
Can UA survive? Opinions on its future
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 5, 2020 at 10:21 am Reason: fate of UA threads
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Old May 5, 2020, 10:24 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by EuropeanPete
Am I the only person to find the use of the term "separation" here cringeworthy? Why this continual obsession with mis-using longish words in corporate speak in the US nowadays?
You mean we should use longish words like "sacked" like England does?

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Old May 5, 2020, 10:35 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by spartacusmcfly
Is he saying pilot reductions will be proportional to schedule reductions? If that's true for other functions (FAs, mechanics, etc.) then UA might go from 100,000 employees on Jan 1, to 10,000 employees on Oct 1? That would be a tragedy.
In the long run, yes. However they're not yet saying October schedules will be at 10% levels.

Originally Posted by bocastephen
Why should airlines get a different deal than any business who applied for a SBA PPP forgivable loan who are required to maintain their payroll? And now people will be let go with only basic unemployment insurance payments unless they leave on their own now and forfeit access to higher unemployment payments?
The feds funding the employees through the airline keeps their insurance benefits going, which unemployment wouldn't get them. $600/week would be going to COBRA.

Originally Posted by Antonio8069
Vol separations may make sense for UA.. They last went into bankruptcy in 2002, when their pension plan was replaced with a savings plan. That helps explain why I see so many FA's working who are over age 65. Withour a pension, the main incentive to continue workig is/was the travel benefits. The value of this benefit has been significantly reduced, so why not separate?
​​​​​​
The pension wasn't wiped out, but it was transferred to the PBGC, but that was two decades ago.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 5, 2020 at 10:38 am Reason: Quote updated to reflect Moderator edit
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Old May 5, 2020, 10:48 am
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fact checking a misleading post
Originally Posted by mduell
​​​​The pension wasn't wiped out, but it was transferred to the PBGC, but that was two decades ago.
With respect, you are obfuscating my point.........airline crew work for a pension & travel benefits. When UA went bankrupt, they lost their DB pension plan. Yes, it was two decades ago, but so what?? They are today being asked to voluntarily separate. I live on my pension and I did not lose it as a result of a bankruptcy.

If you are going to recite history, please be accurate. Thank you.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 5, 2020 at 10:50 am Reason: let's stay civil and without snark
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Old May 5, 2020, 10:57 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Antonio8069
With respect, you are obfuscating my point.........airline crew work for a pension & travel benefits. When UA went bankrupt, they lost their DB pension plan. Yes, it was two decades ago, but so what?? They are today being asked to voluntarily separate. I live on my pension and I did not lose it as a result of a bankruptcy.
Those who had it, kept it; UA stopped adding to it. The 65 year olds you mentioned have had the two decades I mentioned to put aside their own savings on top of whatever pension they had pre-9/11.
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Old May 5, 2020, 11:27 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan
Laying off a large number of people would cause a rise in your unemployment insurance premiums, but to the extent, if any, that this is financially motivated, it's more likely to be about avoiding severance pay.
I think the motivation of the memo is 1) if you can find another job - probably a good idea to take it 2) anything we are offering today to separate - may not be available in the future.

I'm going to assume from another post there are incentives to voluntarily separate - which likely wont be available when they do a mass layoff in October.
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Old May 5, 2020, 11:49 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by enviroian
You mean we should use longish words like "sacked" like England does?

Why use just one word when we can use two as England does? "Made redundant".

I hope for the best for UA's employees. They have some great ones.
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Old May 5, 2020, 1:00 pm
  #43  
 
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It would be nice if this management team would voluntarily separate.
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Old May 5, 2020, 1:16 pm
  #44  
 
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They can start with the excessive number of VP's.
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Old May 5, 2020, 1:28 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by deskover54
I doubt it's about severance pay. wouldn't the severance between a voluntary separation and a layoff be similar? i would think the point of a voluntary separation is to first give it to the people who want it. at least that's been my experience in the 3 or so cycles i've worked on corporate downsizing. it's kind of geared towards those people who you hear say "gee, i wish i got laid off"
Most "voluntary separations" don't get severance in the US

Originally Posted by username
I too don't understand why people would voluntarily leave if there is no severance package and no unemployment. What is the incentive?

If the hope is some will leave voluntarily to save others' jobs, my observation is that you can end up with the most capable and marketable employees leaving. That is not what a company should encourage.
The goal is to find another job before the layoff. Anyone smart is already looking

Originally Posted by Gig103
It has to be coming IMO. Boeing announced voluntary and involuntary layoffs as well. I mean, how can UA buy planes from them if they can't even make payroll? The part that gets me is that when it's all over, has the landscape of business travel changed permanently? After 6 or 8 or 12 months of virtual meetings, do they become the norm? It's a massive cost savings even though in person meetings are more efficient (and productive IMO), so businesses may not want to return to the prior system.
I already do 70-75% of my work remotely. I'd like to get it to 90% if I can. I have no desire to travel this year.

Originally Posted by mduell
Those who had it, kept it; UA stopped adding to it. The 65 year olds you mentioned have had the two decades I mentioned to put aside their own savings on top of whatever pension they had pre-9/11.
Yes but 2008 probably took a massive bite of that savings and this sure as hell is too. 401ks were the worst thing to happen to employee benefits
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 5, 2020 at 8:07 pm Reason: As requested earlier, please take the CARES ACT discussion to an appropriate forum
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