Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Schedule Change(Back to 2hrs)/Cancelation Refund,New DOT ruling,UA processing refunds

Schedule Change(Back to 2hrs)/Cancelation Refund,New DOT ruling,UA processing refunds

    Hide Wikipost
Old Aug 28, 20, 8:14 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: paperwastage
Wiki Link
6 June 2020
Now posted on Jetstream -- UA's Travel Agency Rebooking Parameters



UA has stated
On June 5, 2020, United updated its guidance to its contact agents to provide refunds for all flights that had a carrier-initiated schedule change of more than two (2) hours. This change in guidance applies to all passengers, both moving forward and retrospectively, including for carrier-initiated schedule changes throughout the COVID-19 pandemic.
Wording on UA's Schedule changes page is still vague

12 May 2020 *New* (2nd) Guidance on DOT Refunds
4. May airlines and ticket agents retroactively apply new refund policies?
The Department interprets the statutory prohibition against unfair or deceptive practices to cover actions by airlines and ticket agents applying changes retroactively to their refund policies that affect consumers negatively. The refund policy in place at the time the passenger purchased the ticket is the policy that is applicable to that ticket. The Aviation Enforcement Office would consider the denial of refunds in contravention of the policies that were in effect at the time of the ticket purchase to be an unfair and deceptive practice.The Department interprets the statutory prohibition against unfair or deceptive practices to cover actions by airlines and ticket agents applying changes retroactively to their refund policies that affect consumers negatively. The refund policy in place at the time the passenger purchased the ticket is the policy that is applicable to that ticket. The Aviation Enforcement Office would consider the denial of refunds in contravention of the policies that were in effect at the time of the ticket purchase to be an unfair and deceptive practice.
Choosing between UA Electronic Travel Certificate (ETC) vs Future Flight Credit (FFC)
4 April 2020
Weíre extending electronic certificates
To give you more flexibility when you travel, electronic certificates are now valid for 24 months from the date they were issued. This includes all currently valid electronic certificates and all new ones issued on or after April 1, 2020.

This policy change will automatically appear, but it may not be reflected everywhere right away. Weíd appreciate your patience as we work to make that happen.
As of APR 3:
Both US Department of Transportation and European Commission affirms that a refund must be provided for airline-cancelled flights upon passenger request.
ENFORCEMENT NOTICE REGARDING REFUNDS BY CARRIERS GIVEN THE UNPRECEDENTED IMPACT OF THE COVID-19 PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY ON AIR TRAVEL
European Commission reaffirming on 18 MARCH 2020 that a refund is (still) an option due to cancelled flights despite COVID-19.

Asof 3 April
According to jetstream (UA's travel agency reference resource):

If schedule change > 6 hours (or cancellation with no rebook) a refund is allowed.
If you bought via OTA (Any Online Travel Agency like expedia/orbitz/), and want to perform changes/refund due to the waiver
1) go via OTA first, request cancel per United Jetstream rules
2) if OTA resists and only offers travel credit (instead of refund per Jetstream rules), try contacting UA directly to authorized refund, then contact OTA. Once OTA sees refund, you should get your money back from OTA
3) see [url=https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32635969-post2939.html]this post[url] for more information



For flights departing European Union, UA is required to provide a refund within 7 days upon passenger request for cancellation or schedule change in excess of 5 hours (see Section B).
The Notice of Passenger Rights granted by EC261/2004 is linked on this UA page.

For purposes of EC261/2004, the following countries are considered "Community member states."
EU means the 27 EU countries , including Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Martinique, Rťunion Island, Mayotte, Saint-Martin (French Antilles), the Azores, Madeira and the Canary Islands as well as Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. It does not include the Faeroe Islands, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.


US DOT position from 2011 concerning cancelled flights and refunds (page 23129)
We reject some carriersí and carrier associationsí assertions that carriers are not required to refund a passengerís fare when a flight is cancelled if the carrier can accommodate the passenger with other transportation options after the cancellation. We find it to be manifestly unfair for a carrier to fail to provide the transportation contracted for and then to refuse to provide a refund if the passenger finds the offered rerouting unacceptable (e.g., greatly delayed or otherwise inconvenient) and he or she no longer wishes to travel. Since at least the time of an Industry Letter of July 15, 1996 the Departmentís Aviation Enforcement Office has advised carriers that refusing to refund a non-refundable fare when a flight is canceled and the passenger wishes to cancel is a violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712 (unfair or deceptive practices) and would subject a carrier to enforcement action.



If you believe UA is not refunding "in good faith" and/or outright violating the policy/rules above, your options are (in no particular order or combination):
  • Make an attempt to reach out to UA again and escalate to supervisor and/or put in a refund request on UA page.
  • File complaint with US DoT or relevant Community member state enforcement agency.
  • File a chargeback with your credit card issuer under "Services not provided" after an attempt (note date/time etc) of resolving with UA has been made. ***CAUTION*** Under VISA rules (Table 11-95), a chargeback has to be initiated within 120 days from the date the service is expected to be delivered. As such, if you don't file a chargeback until you are eligible for a refund under UA's "no refund until ticket expires" or UA subsequently deciding to extend all ticket validity beyond 12 months, you may find you will no longer be able to initiate a chargeback. Mastercard should provide similar timeframes. Need confirmation on AMEX/Discover.
***CAUTION*** UA have been offering Electronic Travel Certificates (ETC) as an option instead of exchanging your ticket for future travel. You may be no longer be eligible for a refund even after ticket expiration or be able to initiate a chargeback if you accept an ETC.

United made a controversial change to their refund policy due to schedule changes during the current COVID-19 situation. United's previous schedule change policy allow for refunds if scheduled changed > 2 hours. If you wish to proceed with a charge back due to UA retroactively apply this change, the following links (policies no longer current) could serve to support your case with your credit card issuer and/or with a regulatory complaint.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...arameters.aspx (This links to policy in effect prior to COVID-19)
https://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/agency/bookticket/AgencyRebookingParameters2016_Print.pdf (This links to policy in effect prior to COVID-19)
BACKUP link - http://archive.is/q8jDz (This links to policy in effect prior to COVID-19 and is not a UA link)


Note: UA is being very reluctant to provide refunds. However UA is allowing "free" mileage redeposit

Related thread: Check Your UA Itineraries for Schedule Changes and what to do after one
Print Wikipost

Old Mar 7, 20, 4:57 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: YVR
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 510
Schedule Change(Back to 2hrs)/Cancelation Refund,New DOT ruling,UA processing refunds

*UPDATE June 6* UA has now changed the refund threshold back to 2 hours, for both UA and non-UA flights on 016 ticket.
This applies retroactively to tickets you already received credits for too (and have not used). See options as seen on Jetstream,
Refund window is still longer - up to 21 business days:





*UPDATE March 12* UA has changed the refund threshold from 25+ hours to 6+ hours, as seen on Jetstream and mentioned via Tweet below:

And on UA's schedule change page, 25+ hours has been replaced with "significantly changes":
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...e-changes.html



ORIGINAL source with 25+ hrs from March 7:
Per source:

Last edited by kevflyer; Jun 6, 20 at 12:01 pm Reason: UA now changed it to 2 hours again
kevflyer is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 5:13 pm
  #2  
mr8
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: UA1K | *A Gold
Posts: 766
So we can still request a refund after jumping through more hoops, but it won't be an "Involuntary refund"..?

A 25 hr schedule change is pretty significant! Won't the travel in vain kick in at that point?
mr8 is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 6:01 pm
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 25,683
That's seriously disturbing. I am curious what the DOT will say about this. Essentially UA is saying 'I can rebook you a day later and you have no recourse'? Don't think that is going to fly.
seawolf, Xyzzy, sokolov and 2 others like this.
cfischer is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 6:57 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: IAD/DCA
Programs: HH Diamond, VS Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,010
Wow that smacks of desperation. I wonder what happens when the original return is same day or within 25 hours.
Markie and jtwiz like this.
ctbarron is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:06 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Programs: United 1K, SPG/Mar Plat, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, NEXUS/GE, Amex Plat
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by ctbarron View Post
Wow that smacks of desperation. I wonder what happens when the original return is same day or within 25 hours.
Congratulations, you now have a round trip in the opposite direction!
MTan is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:10 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,494
chargeback time.

helpful for tickets issued prior to today
https://web.archive.org/web/20191120...e-changes.html
Attached Images
File Type: pdf
United Schedule Change Policy.pdf (220.8 KB, 228 views)
File Type: pdf
United Schedule Change Policy.pdf (109.1 KB, 152 views)
seawolf, Xyzzy, Zoltar and 8 others like this.

Last edited by Colin; Mar 7, 20 at 7:17 pm
Colin is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:19 pm
  #7  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orange County California
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,342
So is this a temporary move while the schedule is being reduced or perm?
seat38a is online now  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:21 pm
  #8  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 48,419
Or you could spend 30 seconds looking at the COC and see that UA expressly provides for changes with a change of as little as 30 minutes for arrival or departuure. Rule 24.
Often1 is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:26 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: IAD/DCA
Programs: HH Diamond, VS Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,010
Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Or you could spend 30 seconds looking at the COC and see that UA expressly provides for changes with a change of as little as 30 minutes for arrival or departuure. Rule 24.
Unless UA claims this rule overrides that. Or they change their COC.
ctbarron is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:34 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHX, SEA
Programs: DL Silver, Avis President's Club, Hertz President's Circle, Global Entry (Former AA Plt/Gold)
Posts: 4,016
Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Or you could spend 30 seconds looking at the COC and see that UA expressly provides for changes with a change of as little as 30 minutes for arrival or departuure. Rule 24.
I'm looking now and I see Rule 24 as you mentioned allows for as low as a 30 minute schedule change, but then what is the old "2 hour rule" being referenced? And if this now counts as a 'voluntary' refund, then Rule 27.b4 doesn't require a refund with partners (must be UA stock), and 27.b5 says UA can apply an administrative charge (change fee? cancellation fee?). Also I wonder (since I'm not a lawyer) how Basic tickets count as vol. vs. invol refunds.
Gig103 is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:39 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CVG
Programs: UA Silver, AA, DL, Marriott Silver
Posts: 12,053
Originally Posted by ctbarron View Post
Unless UA claims this rule overrides that. Or they change their COC.
Even if the COC was officially changed, are they even legally able to change those terms on tickets booked prior to the change?

When we buy tickets, we agree to the terms, and Iím ok with that. I fail to see how they can enforce a term that didnít exist at the time I gave my agreement. Or did I miss a line saying I agree to any terms that get updated after the time of the agreement.
emcampbe is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 7:48 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SJC
Programs: Southwest, Alaska, United, American Airlines
Posts: 874
United is literally begging for a revival of Passengers' Bill of Rights efforts if this nonsense survives beyond Monday. Airlines generally get a ton of leeway so long as they do not absurdly violate basic principles of contract/consumer law, and a 25-hour threshold for an involuntary refund goes well into the absurd territory.
sokolov and Zeeb like this.
nerdbirdsjc is online now  
Old Mar 7, 20, 8:00 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SJC
Programs: Southwest, Alaska, United, American Airlines
Posts: 874
United just upped the schedule change threshold for involuntary refunds from 2+ hours to 25+ hours. No one should be buying flights on United 016 ticket stock until this ridiculous rule change is rescinded. Period.
seawolf, af fp, as219 and 8 others like this.
nerdbirdsjc is online now  
Old Mar 7, 20, 8:06 pm
  #14  
Hilton Contributor BadgeMarriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
Posts: 5,703
I'm not a regular inhabitant/reader of the AA and DL fora - anything similar there?

David
DELee is offline  
Old Mar 7, 20, 8:08 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: IAD/DCA
Programs: HH Diamond, VS Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,010
Originally Posted by emcampbe View Post
Even if the COC was officially changed, are they even legally able to change those terms on tickets booked prior to the change?

When we buy tickets, we agree to the terms, and Iím ok with that. I fail to see how they can enforce a term that didnít exist at the time I gave my agreement. Or did I miss a line saying I agree to any terms that get updated after the time of the agreement.
In a quick reading I didnít see anything on changes getting retroactively applied. Rule 3.E indicates the COC in effect when the ticket is purchased is the governing document, unless there is something different in an individual fare rule. I also noted that Rule 24 and 27 give UA a bit more discretion than I remember, but nothing way out of line like 25 hours.

My last thought was if UA (or other airlines) will begin rolling out force majeure to justify changes. Pandemic was not listed as an event, but the language does contain ďanything else we can forgot.Ē
ctbarron is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: