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layover max 4h on international ticket (FAE-CPH-STN)?

layover max 4h on international ticket (FAE-CPH-STN)?

Old Mar 3, 20, 9:33 pm
  #1  
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layover max 4h on international ticket (FAE-CPH-STN)?

I am trying to book an award ticket FAE-CPH-STN using UA miles (one way). This is an international itinerary for all I can tell. Yet, it prices any connection in CPH longer that 4h as a stopover rather than a layover.

Can anyone explain why this is?

UA 1k desk gave me several different stories, including that they had no clue why my desired connection of 20h in CPH was pricing as a stopover.
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Old Mar 3, 20, 9:55 pm
  #2  
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Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
I am trying to book an award ticket FAE-CPH-STN using UA miles (one way). This is an international itinerary for all I can tell. Yet, it prices any connection in CPH longer that 4h as a stopover rather than a layover.

Can anyone explain why this is?
No. The price is now just whatever the computer says it is.

That said, If youíre finding that flight by multi-city search, they took away the ability to make arbitrary transfers a couple of years ago. The only way youíd get the lower price would be if the itinerary were returned as part of a FAE-STN search. If you have to do two searches, youíre going to get the higher price.
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Old Mar 4, 20, 6:26 am
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I think STN is part of the problem as it has much less *A traffic than LHR or LGW. When searching FAE-LHR for 5/13, FAE-CPH-MUC-LHR came up at the 15,000 mile level and with a 14-hour overnight layover in CPH.
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Old Mar 4, 20, 5:32 pm
  #4  
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Yes, itís odd I cannot find it using FAE-STN search. And much longer layovers with LHR as destination price at 15k. Just really strange; Iíd like to find a sensible explanation.
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Old Mar 4, 20, 5:44 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
Yes, itís odd I cannot find it using FAE-STN search. And much longer layovers with LHR as destination price at 15k. Just really strange; Iíd like to find a sensible explanation.
The UA search engine Is limited, and there are some valid itineraries that it just won't find. And agents have been instructed not to override the computer, even when it's obvious that you're not doing anything abusive.
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Old Mar 4, 20, 8:14 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
The UA search engine Is limited, and there are some valid itineraries that it just won't find. And agents have been instructed not to override the computer, even when it's obvious that you're not doing anything abusive.
After speaking with four UA agents, every single one blamed it on the partner airline (SAS here) and whatever combinations it gives to UA. But allowing a 16h layover on FAE-CPH-LHR and not on FAE-CPH-STN makes zero sense in that context.

Would UA ticketing be able to override? They did it for me in the past, but I cannot even get to them any more.
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Old Mar 4, 20, 11:34 pm
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Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
After speaking with four UA agents, every single one blamed it on the partner airline (SAS here) and whatever combinations it gives to UA. But allowing a 16h layover on FAE-CPH-LHR and not on FAE-CPH-STN makes zero sense in that context.
You're looking for logic where there is none. These rules are entirely arbitrary, and, in many cases, are likely a matter of happenstance. I suspect UA sells one ticket every three years, at most, between FAE and STN. They have little motivation to make sure that their search engine works smoothly for a trip that nearly nobody is buying from them..

Incidentally, you're reading too much into this. It's not that the 16h transfer isn't being allowed; it's that the search results don't happen to return it. It may be that UA is actually running an FAE-LON search and then filtering out the other airports or something. If you'd like to post a sample date, somebody can take a look and see if they can reproduce the same issue, but I think you're probably just running into "the computer returns what it returns."

Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
Would UA ticketing be able to override? They did it for me in the past, but I cannot even get to them any more.
If there is space when searched via multi-city, they can absolutely override it, but that's contrary to policy and there have been very, very few positive reports of exceptions since they've started doing things this way. You might try booking LHR and then calling within 24 hours to ask if it's possible to substitute STN instead, but don't be surprised if they refuse.
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Old Mar 5, 20, 9:24 am
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
You're looking for logic where there is none. ...

Incidentally, you're reading too much into this. It's not that the 16h transfer isn't being allowed; it's that the search results don't happen to return it. It may be that UA is actually running an FAE-LON search and then filtering out the other airports or something. If you'd like to post a sample date, somebody can take a look and see if they can reproduce the same issue, but I think you're probably just running into "the computer returns what it returns."
So true on the logic comment. vip66, are you searching for round-trip or one-way? The limit on search results is exacerbated by round-trip searches. The return leg tends to show very few options. I've had the opposite problem with agents where a routing shows available in a one-way search, but they seem to have to search through a much larger set of routings and sometimes can't see the one I can see on the website. As noted, the multi-city search isn't very helpful due to the married segment inventory that UA is using.
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Old Mar 5, 20, 6:07 pm
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Originally Posted by tods27 View Post
So true on the logic comment. vip66, are you searching for round-trip or one-way? The limit on search results is exacerbated by round-trip searches. The return leg tends to show very few options. I've had the opposite problem with agents where a routing shows available in a one-way search, but they seem to have to search through a much larger set of routings and sometimes can't see the one I can see on the website. As noted, the multi-city search isn't very helpful due to the married segment inventory that UA is using.
I tried booking it (FAE-STN) as one-way, it shows no availability. Multi-segment does show it, but it books as two one-ways, totaling 23k miles.

Yet, same dates FAE-LHR one-way search has availability even with the 10h layover in CPH, pricing at 15k.

I guess itíll just forget about logic in this case.
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Old Mar 5, 20, 6:10 pm
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Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
Iíd like to find a sensible explanation.
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Old Mar 5, 20, 6:55 pm
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My theory: STN is a low cost airport in the LON web of airports (5?) perhaps akin to MDW, HOU, OAK, HPN, whatever. SK decided to form a subsidiary called SAS Ireland, drafting off the mothershipís brand equity, to compete with ULC carrier Ryan Air on this particular city pair, and a few others. CPH-STN is operated by SK subsidiary SAS Ireland, and then SK submits CPH-STN into *A engine but restricting bookings to only that city pair and very limited feed from other airports - assuming thatís *A member privilege. Hence OPís difficulty in booking FAE-STN ó CPH-STN fine; FAE-CPH fine; but FAE-CPH-STN not so much given SKís strategy with ULC carrier SAS Ireland. OP - Iím afraid STN is an ultra low cost market that SK and other *A carriers are skirting.
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Old Mar 6, 20, 8:48 am
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Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
I tried booking it (FAE-STN) as one-way, it shows no availability. Multi-segment does show it, but it books as two one-ways, totaling 23k miles.

Yet, same dates FAE-LHR one-way search has availability even with the 10h layover in CPH, pricing at 15k.

I guess itíll just forget about logic in this case.
This is "married segment" logic and it shows up all over the system. They are not willing to open award space from FAE-STN, but they are willing to sell an award FAE-CPH or CPH-STN. That is why it shows as available with two one-ways. I can't speak to why this is the case, but that is what you are running into.
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Old Mar 6, 20, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by tods27 View Post
This is "married segment" logic and it shows up all over the system. They are not willing to open award space from FAE-STN, but they are willing to sell an award FAE-CPH or CPH-STN. That is why it shows as available with two one-ways. I can't speak to why this is the case, but that is what you are running into.
I think itís more than that. System issue is my guess and hereís why:

I can book FAE-LHR (with a connection in CPH) as one-way for 15k. The very same segments booked using multi-city search price at 23k (15k + 8k). The system should know that the two should be married, shouldnít it? At least it worked like that in the past.
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Old Mar 6, 20, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
I think itís more than that. System issue is my guess and hereís why:

I can book FAE-LHR (with a connection in CPH) as one-way for 15k. The very same segments booked using multi-city search price at 23k (15k + 8k). The system should know that the two should be married, shouldnít it? At least it worked like that in the past.
That's the point of married segments. Showing in multi-city search shows each leg as a segment. The normal search FAE-STN would look for the actual married segments, and at this point, there are none avaialable. Its similar to pricing. If you bought a FAE-STN ticket, it would be one price, but if you bought two tickets (FAE-CPH and CPH-STN) you would pay a different price, even if you were actually flying on the same tickets. You can do a search on "married segments" to see a lot of discussion here on FT.
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Old Mar 6, 20, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by vip66 View Post
The system should know that the two should be married, shouldnít it? At least it worked like that in the past.
It hasnít worked that way in a couple of years, which is what I was trying to say originally. You can no longer pick and choose the segments that you want. United is inserting a fare break at the multi-city search location, which is why it prices the way that it does. The 24 hour rule that youíre trying to force doesnít exist.

Married inventory may or may not explain why FAE-CPH-STN isnít showing up in the search results. I suspect itís actually just a matter of hitting an internal limit of some sort in Unitedís search engine. You can try calling and pleading your case, but agents have been instructed not to override the computer.
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