Finkface

Actually, not true of theatre tickets anymore. At least IME. I bought tickets to Hamilton recently and their anti-scalping methods are fierce. Only I could show up at the theatre with the confirmation email and photo id or the credit card I used to purchase. Had I not been there, no one in my party could have gone in. They checked id at the door. More and more places are moving to this method to thwart scalping. And if I am not mistaken, all event tickets have always had the non-transferrable language. People just ignored it because reselling was not easily enforced.

dgcpaphd

Would it not be simpler is United stopped calling the sale of miles, the sale of miles as they do when they sell miles?

The OP has an excellent point considering the fact that United repeatedly uses the words - buy miles - in the transaction, logic tells the buyers they bought something.

Rather than call the purchase of miles, a purchase, why doesn't United call the transaction by a different name?

ani90

Because it is exactly that - a purchase. I gave United money and in return I got 20,000 miles. To pretend they didn't sell the miles to me and I did not buy miles from them is a ridiculous as people who sell GPUs on eBay and claim they did not sell the GPUs but rather sold advice.

Often1

When one purchases miles from UA, one does so pursuant to a contract which expressly describes the nature of their lawful use and the ownership interests (or lack thereof).

If one does not like the terms, then do not agree to them.

But, to agree to them and then come whinging on social media that one has been done over hard is just that: whinging.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

I think UA would argue that you are not really buying miles. What you’re really buying is a revocable right to use whatever mileage credits UA allocates to your account (which is owned by UA, not you). UA is holding those credits that you can access as long as UA lets you. I don’t think you actually actually own any miles - just the exclusive right to use them.

UA, since it actually owns the miles, can certainly specify how a what an user can do with the mileage or point credits it lets an account user access.

JimInOhio

So what would you have done after those purchased miles expired had you not taken a flight? (Yes, I know that’s irrelevant now but it wasn’t for the longest time)

lincolnjkc

Just because you bought something (and the exercise in semantics about bought/licensed/rented/whatever is just that), pursuant to the terms of a contract, doesn't automatically mean you have the right to resell it.

Rule 5 is pretty clear on its own


Combined with Rule 10 which has its own giant heading of "Prohibition of sale or barter" I don't think it could be more clear that your rights to dispose of miles you purchase from UA ("....authorized and/or sponsored by United") are extremely limited and don't involve selling them. And this isn't uncommon in many business transactions, especially in the travel sector.

ani90

Exactly the same as any other non-exchangeable good I purchase. If I go to the shop and buy a sandwich or a restaurant and buy a burger I do not expect to return it or sell it, or for it to have value after it expires, but it does not remove the fact that I bought it.

Then in that case they are pushing a deceitful marketing campaign. The last email I got last week was titled

”Two days for 100% more when you buy miles"

Down the email was a box titled "Buy Miles" for me to click to make this purchase.

JimInOhio

I’m not following you at all. What restaurant reclaims a burger if you don’t eat it within a specific time the restaurant arbitrarily determines?

IAH-OIL-TRASH

I own several properties in Las Vegas. For one of them (a mid-rise condo), I “bought” an extra parking space and storage unit in the building from another condo owner. What I actually “bought” was an exclusive right to use a certain parking space and storage unit. While the entities are “mine”, the HOA actually owns them and prescribes use of them. If I willfully and continuously violate association rules as to use of them, the exclusive right can be rescinded by the HOA. I could file for relief in court, but the HOA by-laws pretty much will hold up if I violate the rules of use.

If I were to sell the exclusive rights I currently hold, I will advertise them as “parking space and storage unit for sale”, as it normally is done.

In the MP rules, I think they make it pretty clear that they have ULTIMATE discretion over miles, NOT the account holder. That makes the account holders nominal owners of the miles. An account holder can file a claim in court, but results indicate airlines are free to do what they want per the rules they provide to the mileage account holders.

ani90

Correct and I am not challenging such discretion; neither am I challenging the MP rules. Miles belong to UA and we can only use them at United's convenience.

The issue I was referring to is simple and one that was brought up by another poster in relation to this thread. UA sells miles to us and advertises that they do, asking us to buy miles. It therefore is not inconceivable that some people would think it is then okay to sell those miles and do so without knowledge that they are breaking the rules (as opposed to the general feeling here that all those who sell miles and instruments are knowingly breaking the rules). Of course as others mention lack of knowledge of T and C doesn't exempt one from consequences of breaking the rules, but it could still be an innocent 'mistake'. And also UA cannot on one hand email us and explicitly ask us to buy miles and then on the other suggest miles are not sold or bought.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

Why not???????

The prohibition of buying and selling is a condition of acquiring the miles in the first place. When one buys the miles, one agrees to the conditions.

I go to Costco and buy a 1000 pack of granola bars. On each individual bar there is a “Not for retail/individual sale” printed on the packaging. You’re not breaking a government law if you do re-sell them individually but the manufacturer certainly reserves a right to cause trouble. Of course, I doubt Nature Valley is going bother...

hughw

It's obvious that few posters here are familiar with New York City Coop (Cooperative) Apartments. There are also Condo's, but most of the traditional Park Avenue, Fitth Avenue, West Side Apartments, etc. are Coops. They're advertised for sale. One buys them. One sells them, paying a commission to a real estate agent, and paying capital gains, and NYC real estate sales taxes, etc. But one does not really ever "own" the apartment. They're owned by the Cooperative and all you are really doing is buying shares in the Coop that gives you the right to occupy the apartment as long as you own it. And you can't just sell it. Once you have a buyer, the buyer must submit various financial documents and recommendations to the Coop for approval.....and yes, many people are turned down....sometimes because they don't meet financial requirements, sometimes because they're deemed "unsuitable" for the building, perhaps because they're an entertainer whose fans might disturb the other shareholders. And while most Coops allow you to sublet your apartment, they must approve the sublet, and often have a limit of how long it can be sublet, typically a year maximum. So here's something that you "buy" and likely spend hundreds, if not many millions, of dollars for, and you're far from free to do what you want with it.

ani90

Sorry I did not express myself well.

I was not referring to United's rule that MP members cannot sell miles. What I was referring to is comments in a prior post that United does not sell miles to us and that we do not buy miles from United. United does sell us miles and we do buy miles from United.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

I think everyone can agree UA is not selling something tangible. One is actually buying what a mile represents - revocable credits that can be exchanged for something that is real - a better seat, transportation from one point to another, magazines, etc.

Only if said “common sense” also decided that the rules accompanying the purchase are to be ignored.