Were The Early 80's Really That Much Better On UA Than Now?
Dec 13, 2019, 6:53 pm
#331
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I was only alive for a few years in the 1980s but I can safely say that in the late 1990s flying United was better than now. Overhead IFE or looped PTVs and the meals in Economy were good. In Economy, I remember flying MIA-ORD-EWR and getting a full breakfast on a 777 on MIA-ORD and a cheeseburger on ORD-EWR which was on a 757 in 2000. The seats on the 757 were older though and the interior looked a bit worn at the time.
CO was a different story. The meals served in Coach were the same in 1995 as they were in 2006 believe it or not. They were never all that great but were heavily promoted right before they discontinued them.
COEX service on the ATRs to EWR = Woof. Almost crashed landed in one flying BTV-EWR in 1993 and near motion sickness on MHT-EWR in 1999.
CO was a different story. The meals served in Coach were the same in 1995 as they were in 2006 believe it or not. They were never all that great but were heavily promoted right before they discontinued them.
COEX service on the ATRs to EWR = Woof. Almost crashed landed in one flying BTV-EWR in 1993 and near motion sickness on MHT-EWR in 1999.
IMissThe747 Just taking a guess on the CX flight, but fifth freedom routings were a lot more common at the time (often as a legacy of having planes that couldn't go A-C and so had to stop at B).
As to in-flight catering (and food in general), I've noticed a broader trend towards "wackier" items pretty much everywhere. It was quaint and enjoyable at VX, but it's actually getting to be tiresome. There are more than a few times I'd prefer to have someone just sort out the seasoning on the meatloaf, veggies, and potatoes (not an airline example, but Amtrak did a nice meatloaf a few years back) and chuck the quinoa.
As to in-flight catering (and food in general), I've noticed a broader trend towards "wackier" items pretty much everywhere. It was quaint and enjoyable at VX, but it's actually getting to be tiresome. There are more than a few times I'd prefer to have someone just sort out the seasoning on the meatloaf, veggies, and potatoes (not an airline example, but Amtrak did a nice meatloaf a few years back) and chuck the quinoa.
Although, the first time I flew transcon business LAX - IAD back in 1998, it was an upgrade with only 5,000 miles needed one-way from a B fare, which was ~$1950 roundtrip, purchased less than 3 days before departure. All I remembered was half way through the morning flight, the flight attendant by and asked me whether I would like to have a snack, and she brought a full-size roast beef sandwich with a mound of potato salad.
If I recall correctly, into the 90s on WN I don't think they gave out the laminated "boarding pass" at the ticket counter, so after lining up to check bags you lined up again at the gate to get the boarding card, then lined up again at the A/B/C signs since there was no distinction between the numbers within each group, just first-lined-up-first-served. I didn't fly them much in that era (no presence transcon yet), but I recall seeing people camped out both for the gate agent to show up 1hr before flight time and then again with all their stuff in the boarding line.
Fun fact: When you received your boarding pass at the gate, that's where they will stamp your Rapid Rewards application. 16 stamps gets you a plastic card and your first reward - any 2 WN flights in the system.
These were headphones. State of the art at the time 
Channeled sound waves through hollow plastic tubing into the auditory canals of user's ears. No electironic components. Used by all major airlines I flew. Useful for listening to the one movie that played at a time, either on a screen that was pulled down over the center bulkhead, or--later--on Cathode-Ray Tube TVs mounted on the ceilings. There might be a few music channels to listen, namely classical, easy-listening, and country. And, on UA, Channel 9.
Channeled sound waves through hollow plastic tubing into the auditory canals of user's ears. No electironic components. Used by all major airlines I flew. Useful for listening to the one movie that played at a time, either on a screen that was pulled down over the center bulkhead, or--later--on Cathode-Ray Tube TVs mounted on the ceilings. There might be a few music channels to listen, namely classical, easy-listening, and country. And, on UA, Channel 9.
Dec 13, 2019, 7:55 pm
#332
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All I remembered from CO coach meal was the burger with the plastic cheese, served in a plastic bag.
This is a good place to bring back the dreaded mustard lamb/mutton chop from mid 2000 p.s. flights, with the Charlie Trotter symbol next to the menu.
Yes, in p.s. First Class.
Although, the first time I flew transcon business LAX - IAD back in 1998, it was an upgrade with only 5,000 miles needed one-way from a B fare, which was ~$1950 roundtrip, purchased less than 3 days before departure. All I remembered was half way through the morning flight, the flight attendant by and asked me whether I would like to have a snack, and she brought a full-size roast beef sandwich with a mound of potato salad.
Yes that's correct. You exchange your paper ticket at the gate for one of the plastic boarding passes, and there are 3 lanes of 1-30, 31-60, 60-90, and the dreaded rest of 91+. Hence why my point where after they enacted the boarding pass rule to enter the secured area, WN needed to change their boarding pass issuance process and no longer used the plastic boarding passes.
Fun fact: When you received your boarding pass at the gate, that's where they will stamp your Rapid Rewards application. 16 stamps gets you a plastic card and your first reward - any 2 WN flights in the system.
Oh yes - the headphone part would be in the seat pocket, but you have to pay to rent the tube in coach. Hence why the older drink coupons allow for either drinks or headset rentals.
This is a good place to bring back the dreaded mustard lamb/mutton chop from mid 2000 p.s. flights, with the Charlie Trotter symbol next to the menu.
Yes, in p.s. First Class.
Although, the first time I flew transcon business LAX - IAD back in 1998, it was an upgrade with only 5,000 miles needed one-way from a B fare, which was ~$1950 roundtrip, purchased less than 3 days before departure. All I remembered was half way through the morning flight, the flight attendant by and asked me whether I would like to have a snack, and she brought a full-size roast beef sandwich with a mound of potato salad.
Yes that's correct. You exchange your paper ticket at the gate for one of the plastic boarding passes, and there are 3 lanes of 1-30, 31-60, 60-90, and the dreaded rest of 91+. Hence why my point where after they enacted the boarding pass rule to enter the secured area, WN needed to change their boarding pass issuance process and no longer used the plastic boarding passes.
Fun fact: When you received your boarding pass at the gate, that's where they will stamp your Rapid Rewards application. 16 stamps gets you a plastic card and your first reward - any 2 WN flights in the system.
Oh yes - the headphone part would be in the seat pocket, but you have to pay to rent the tube in coach. Hence why the older drink coupons allow for either drinks or headset rentals.
I do recall many of UA 727 and 737 had audio and no video and US had CRTs monitors on their 737s Classics that they removed as well into the early 2000s.
FYI: UA's P.S. didn't start until 2004-2005 when they were almost finished retiring the 762s. Back then they served full-on meals in coach which were dumped in and around 2006 a year it was launched. I flew it in 2010 and 2011 in J, booking with miles in Y and then purchasing a J upgrade at the gate for $350 each time one way. I'm glad did it too as it was on JFK-LAX around New Year's and the headwinds were super strong pushing those flights beyond 6 hours. The service wasn't remarkable but the food and seat made up for it. IFE was the digi-players which were upgraded from 2010 to 2011. The 2011 edition of those players were way superior.
Last edited by LAX_AUS_DL_FLYER; Dec 14, 2019 at 4:07 pm
Dec 13, 2019, 11:38 pm
#333
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Dec 14, 2019, 4:34 pm
#334
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Ran across this example of the 'entertainment' available - forgot about the whole 'westbound / eastbound' thing for in flight entertainment before on demand screens to keep some variety. Imagine squinting from mid cabin on a DC10 to watch this. One thing hasn't changed...awkward business to business market ads on inflight screens.
And here's how the ads looked (about a year later there was a bad pilot strike and the touchy feely friendly skies era took a back seat while UA figured out how to be a business centric carrier). Remember those 70s vintage orange and red carpets in a lot of airports on trips as a kid.
And here's how the ads looked (about a year later there was a bad pilot strike and the touchy feely friendly skies era took a back seat while UA figured out how to be a business centric carrier). Remember those 70s vintage orange and red carpets in a lot of airports on trips as a kid.
Dec 15, 2019, 5:14 am
#335
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For all practical purposes, pmUA was effectively the merger of UA and PA without the actual hassles of a merger that would have caused an uproar if it was done all at once. Granted it was done in blocks, but of the 4 major PA divisions that survived, UA got 3 of them --all the TPAC routes and planes in the 1980s; then the entire LHR hub including the intra-Europe flights (big deal at the time as only PA and TWA could fly to LHR) and then finally the LatAm division with the MIA hub and JFK-LatAm nonstops. DL got the JFK terminal and JFK nonstops to Europe including the FRA hub for the eastern Europe routes. I think that part was the dog that nearly clipped DLs wings.
Dec 15, 2019, 9:19 am
#336
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But it wasn't profitable, probably in part because United didn't have an actual hub in Miami and could route traffic onto the flights. Plus, Lima drew very few business travelers. So they got rid of Lima and moved their other Latin American routes to either Dulles or O'Hare.
I flew LAX-IAD-EZE a few times, which always seemed faintly ridiculous. On the other hand, UA's Argentine operation was pretty impressive- they had a baggage service office in EZE and was able to obtain my bag and deliver it to my hotel the next day when they lost it.
Dec 15, 2019, 2:21 pm
#337
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United tried in Latin America. For awhile, they had a sort of focus city operation in Miami for some Latin American flights. They went to Sao Paolo, Rio, Buenos Aires, and Lima, and maybe some other places.
But it wasn't profitable, probably in part because United didn't have an actual hub in Miami and could route traffic onto the flights. Plus, Lima drew very few business travelers. So they got rid of Lima and moved their other Latin American routes to either Dulles or O'Hare.
I flew LAX-IAD-EZE a few times, which always seemed faintly ridiculous. On the other hand, UA's Argentine operation was pretty impressive- they had a baggage service office in EZE and was able to obtain my bag and deliver it to my hotel the next day when they lost it.
But it wasn't profitable, probably in part because United didn't have an actual hub in Miami and could route traffic onto the flights. Plus, Lima drew very few business travelers. So they got rid of Lima and moved their other Latin American routes to either Dulles or O'Hare.
I flew LAX-IAD-EZE a few times, which always seemed faintly ridiculous. On the other hand, UA's Argentine operation was pretty impressive- they had a baggage service office in EZE and was able to obtain my bag and deliver it to my hotel the next day when they lost it.
Dec 15, 2019, 3:45 pm
#338
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I always did find the understated MIA focus city for UA to be somewhat impressive when I went through it in 2000 and it seemed pretty busy. Domestic turns to the hubs were on 763s and 777s which connected to South America. The final stretch of domestic feed included MCO, ATL, LGA, and DCA other than the hubs. UA on MIA-EWR was discontinued in 1999 but briefly came back on weekends seasonally in the winter in 2002-2003 and maybe even into 2004. I think it was somewhat profitable in the late 1990s but it was cut along with the JFK focus city during BK in the mid-2000s.
Dec 16, 2019, 4:05 pm
#339
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The last UA service to Santiago was in early 2003 from Miami. Up until the merger, I don't think either airline served Chile and it was added only in the last few years and added from IAH.
I always did find the understated MIA focus city for UA to be somewhat impressive when I went through it in 2000 and it seemed pretty busy. Domestic turns to the hubs were on 763s and 777s which connected to South America. The final stretch of domestic feed included MCO, ATL, LGA, and DCA other than the hubs. UA on MIA-EWR was discontinued in 1999 but briefly came back on weekends seasonally in the winter in 2002-2003 and maybe even into 2004. I think it was somewhat profitable in the late 1990s but it was cut along with the JFK focus city during BK in the mid-2000s.
I always did find the understated MIA focus city for UA to be somewhat impressive when I went through it in 2000 and it seemed pretty busy. Domestic turns to the hubs were on 763s and 777s which connected to South America. The final stretch of domestic feed included MCO, ATL, LGA, and DCA other than the hubs. UA on MIA-EWR was discontinued in 1999 but briefly came back on weekends seasonally in the winter in 2002-2003 and maybe even into 2004. I think it was somewhat profitable in the late 1990s but it was cut along with the JFK focus city during BK in the mid-2000s.
I think where they struggled was they treated MIA and JFK more like Tokyo in the sense that once a day a bunch of 747s, 777s, 767s and 757s converged from the main hubs and metro areas (i.e., EWR/LGA/JFK; IAD/DCA) then they all went on to Central and South America. They also really didn't evolve the route authorities they got like AA did with the Braniff/Eastern routes (i.e., more nonstops and less mutli-stop and tags). If you where in Detroit and wanted to go to Latam...on UA you had to go to ORD, then you were put on a widebody to MIA...whereas (I think) AA made MIA a real hub and started going MIA-DET and lots of other places nonstop to feed traffic. I think UA also lost out when the visa-free transit system ended after 9/11 as they had a lot of LatAm - Asia traffic that connected in the US. If I recall correct at one point, I was on a 747 from EZE-MIA-ORD and then after ORD, the plane was to go on to Asia.
In terms of actual destinations, they also tagged over to MVD (JFK-EZE-MVD 767) + had CCS (MIA/JFK)...POS was a tag from MIA-CCS; + RIO. They also went to Central America--places like PTY, SJO from MIA and the west coast central america flights came from PA.
No idea on this, but after they shut down the hub and decreased JFK International routes, it does seem like they did a good job shifting the most viable routes through IAD and ORD as nonstops (i.e., ORD-GRU started after the MIA hub closed and for awhile, ORD-EZE)
Dec 16, 2019, 5:55 pm
#340
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Not to get too far off topic as LatAm was 1990s...but UA had a decent operation to the region through MIA and JFK. To go to LatAm, they ran widebodies on both ORD-JFK and ORD-MIA (often a 747-100/200 variant for a good part of the 1990s) that then flew south (I also remember 747SP on MIA-EZE a few times).
I think where they struggled was they treated MIA and JFK more like Tokyo in the sense that once a day a bunch of 747s, 777s, 767s and 757s converged from the main hubs and metro areas (i.e., EWR/LGA/JFK; IAD/DCA) then they all went on to Central and South America. They also really didn't evolve the route authorities they got like AA did with the Braniff/Eastern routes (i.e., more nonstops and less mutli-stop and tags). If you where in Detroit and wanted to go to Latam...on UA you had to go to ORD, then you were put on a widebody to MIA...whereas (I think) AA made MIA a real hub and started going MIA-DET and lots of other places nonstop to feed traffic. I think UA also lost out when the visa-free transit system ended after 9/11 as they had a lot of LatAm - Asia traffic that connected in the US. If I recall correct at one point, I was on a 747 from EZE-MIA-ORD and then after ORD, the plane was to go on to Asia.
In terms of actual destinations, they also tagged over to MVD (JFK-EZE-MVD 767) + had CCS (MIA/JFK)...POS was a tag from MIA-CCS; + RIO. They also went to Central America--places like PTY, SJO from MIA and the west coast central america flights came from PA.
No idea on this, but after they shut down the hub and decreased JFK International routes, it does seem like they did a good job shifting the most viable routes through IAD and ORD as nonstops (i.e., ORD-GRU started after the MIA hub closed and for awhile, ORD-EZE)
I think where they struggled was they treated MIA and JFK more like Tokyo in the sense that once a day a bunch of 747s, 777s, 767s and 757s converged from the main hubs and metro areas (i.e., EWR/LGA/JFK; IAD/DCA) then they all went on to Central and South America. They also really didn't evolve the route authorities they got like AA did with the Braniff/Eastern routes (i.e., more nonstops and less mutli-stop and tags). If you where in Detroit and wanted to go to Latam...on UA you had to go to ORD, then you were put on a widebody to MIA...whereas (I think) AA made MIA a real hub and started going MIA-DET and lots of other places nonstop to feed traffic. I think UA also lost out when the visa-free transit system ended after 9/11 as they had a lot of LatAm - Asia traffic that connected in the US. If I recall correct at one point, I was on a 747 from EZE-MIA-ORD and then after ORD, the plane was to go on to Asia.
In terms of actual destinations, they also tagged over to MVD (JFK-EZE-MVD 767) + had CCS (MIA/JFK)...POS was a tag from MIA-CCS; + RIO. They also went to Central America--places like PTY, SJO from MIA and the west coast central america flights came from PA.
No idea on this, but after they shut down the hub and decreased JFK International routes, it does seem like they did a good job shifting the most viable routes through IAD and ORD as nonstops (i.e., ORD-GRU started after the MIA hub closed and for awhile, ORD-EZE)
Dec 17, 2019, 10:36 am
#341
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My first international premium flights were not until 1998 (AA 767-300s JFK-ORY-JFK). Interestingly the service was pretty similar to today. The food wasn't much better, the pre-landing meal was still continental, the service wasn't that good and of course the seat was a really hideous looking brown recliner with sheepskin:
IFE was a video cassette player that you had to find some place to put, whose batteries frequently ran out, and you had to share tapes with the whole cabin so you might not get the movie you wanted.
Domestic First Class back then was a little more fun as flights were emptier and shorter flights had meals. I remember flying LGA-CLT-GSO on a DC-9-30 and Fokker-100 in 1999 and being one of four passengers in F on CLT-GSO. Nowadays the upgrade list on that route is 20-30.
IFE was a video cassette player that you had to find some place to put, whose batteries frequently ran out, and you had to share tapes with the whole cabin so you might not get the movie you wanted.
Domestic First Class back then was a little more fun as flights were emptier and shorter flights had meals. I remember flying LGA-CLT-GSO on a DC-9-30 and Fokker-100 in 1999 and being one of four passengers in F on CLT-GSO. Nowadays the upgrade list on that route is 20-30.
Jan 29, 2020, 7:13 am
#343
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Jan 29, 2020, 7:40 am
#344
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Some cuts have been made since the 60s, but airfare is massively cheaper than it was then.
Jan 30, 2020, 2:21 am
#345
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Pre-deregulation all tickets were fully refundable and they didn't nickel and dime you for extras--though comparing then and now in today's $ flights are cheaper today.