Were The Early 80's Really That Much Better On UA Than Now?
#211
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Ok so ISR's were trained as the FA's like to say "For Your Safety," and were certified to help in evacuations, but it was just union rules that prevented them from serving drinks. If that is the case, why were the Unions against the ISR's? Just make them union dues paying FA's who wore Kimonos and be done with it.
#212
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They were there for language / cultural assistance.
Just make them union dues paying FA's who wore Kimonos and be done with it.
Eventually things evolved so that there are now F/A domiciles in Europe and Asia, paid at union wages.
#213
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That would probably have been OK with the F/A union, but UA management didn't want to pay them union wages.
Eventually things evolved so that there are now F/A domiciles in Europe and Asia, paid at union wages.
Eventually things evolved so that there are now F/A domiciles in Europe and Asia, paid at union wages.
#214
formerly 1984SW
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Ok so ISR's were trained as the FA's like to say "For Your Safety," and were certified to help in evacuations, but it was just union rules that prevented them from serving drinks. If that is the case, why were the Unions against the ISR's? Just make them union dues paying FA's who wore Kimonos and be done with it.
For those that have not followed my posts over the years. I'm a retired United F/A. I worked solely international routes since 1986 (Pac Day,) and was an active union member (I was Grievance and Scheduling trained) and spent many hours working in AFA offices. I undoubtedly knew more ISRs than @5khours .
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 5, 2019 at 4:53 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
#215
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UA had foreign domiciled crews from before.
If so, you have no idea what you are talking about.
#216
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For those that have not followed my posts over the years. I'm a retired United F/A. I worked solely international routes since 1986 (Pac Day,) and was an active union member (I was Grievance and Scheduling trained) and spent many hours working in AFA offices. I undoubtedly knew more ISRs than 5khours .
Glad you are here.
#217
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Posts: 1,636
They absolutely were NOT part of the crew complement; they NEVER replaced a F/A. If a flight called for 15 F/As and there were 14 F/As + the ISR, the F/As got understaffing pay and worked with only 14 bodies. The union did NOT kill the position. The union *did* insist that the F/A contract Scope Clause be heeded and that the ISRs could do *no* F/A responsibilities. The ISRs you knew told you a bit of revisionist history.
Absolutely!
Absolutely!
#218
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
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It's hard to compete with random anecdotes ($99 is awfully cheap for a transcon back in the day, and all reliable sources concur that average fares have remained roughly constant in nominal dollars since 1930), but even today you can fly LAX-NYC round-trip for $72 (in 1982 dollars) or as little as $50 if you want to fly Frontier (and not non-stop). If "way back when" is before Carter-era inflation, then this difference becomes much more dramatic.
I think the grand conceit is that the number of dollars to fly on a plane has never really gone down, and we are really, really bad at considering inflation.
I think the grand conceit is that the number of dollars to fly on a plane has never really gone down, and we are really, really bad at considering inflation.
Last edited by uanj; Dec 5, 2019 at 8:59 am
#219
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Obviously!!!!
And thank you for your efforts without which, this thread would probably not exist. (Kudos also to management and the FTC who deserve honorable mentions.)
As far as Europe goes, I have no idea.
As far as the Pacific, no of course not since UA had virtually no presence in the region until it acquired the Pacific routes of Pan Am which had Tokyo based crews as far back as the mid-60's.
And thank you for your efforts without which, this thread would probably not exist. (Kudos also to management and the FTC who deserve honorable mentions.)
As far as the Pacific, no of course not since UA had virtually no presence in the region until it acquired the Pacific routes of Pan Am which had Tokyo based crews as far back as the mid-60's.
#220
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
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This is definitely the one thing that gets me about some of the nostalgia, especially for "when Y was a nice experience". If you want to pay regulated Economy prices and get a decent flight, you still can.. it's called today's premium cabin
That being said, one thing that really depresses me about flying these days is how almost no one thinks it's special or magical anymore. We don't need to keep dressing up in coat and tie, but it's just sad to see pax in a spectrum between a belligerent, aggressive "come at me, do your worst, United" attitude and curling up in a ball praying it will be over one minute faster. People dress down to fly, try to sleep every second of the way, and now there is a deep-rooted cultural expectation that the flying experience is one of the most miserable times of your life rather than the excitement of a special trip. Pax used to be happier, and in even in premium cabins it's a very transactional "let's get this done with quickly" experience (admittedly also in keeping with the ever-faster pace of modern life).
That being said, one thing that really depresses me about flying these days is how almost no one thinks it's special or magical anymore. We don't need to keep dressing up in coat and tie, but it's just sad to see pax in a spectrum between a belligerent, aggressive "come at me, do your worst, United" attitude and curling up in a ball praying it will be over one minute faster. People dress down to fly, try to sleep every second of the way, and now there is a deep-rooted cultural expectation that the flying experience is one of the most miserable times of your life rather than the excitement of a special trip. Pax used to be happier, and in even in premium cabins it's a very transactional "let's get this done with quickly" experience (admittedly also in keeping with the ever-faster pace of modern life).
This week, I booked a round trip fare from Colorado to HNL including flying First on the red-eye leg from HNL to DEN for under $1000. That's 1000 in 2019 dollars.
I'm glad I don't have to dress up to fly coach anymore but it's still a bit of a shock seeing people in first class dressed down wearing tee shirts and shorts and flip-flops. Flying has become what the general public wanted -- a faster bus trip. When airfare was regulated, airlines had to compete based on service. Every now and then, someone still tries to up the ante on service but it invariably devolves to what they can afford to field as they compete on price.
I suppose things could be worse. The future of space travel -- if/when we ever get public space travel -- looks like people will just slip into a plastic diaper, load themselves into a pod and then get dropped in place like the rest of the cargo. On the bright side, everyone will have their own IFE and waste disposal. No waiting in lines, no one pushing their elbows into your seat.
#221
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You flew F roundtrip DEN_HNL_DEN for a total price of under 1K? On a publicly-available fare? Amazing.
#222
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I took it as DEN-HNL in Y and HNL-DEN in F. That's not too hard for under $1k.
#223
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
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Part of what I see in dress isn't "level of formality" per se.. it's hard for me to describe but the clothing is just part of the whole attitude of "this is going to be my most miserable day of the year, and this is what I will wear for that". I mentioned I flew somewhere and people's reaction is "oh, I'm sorry you had to do that". Etc, etc.
#224
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And the memories of walking past the smokers to use the aft lavs once on board.
#225
Join Date: Sep 2004
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[EDIT: I will add something else. It was harder to get into F without buying a F ticket at full fare or close to it. Frequent flyer program benefits were a lot less available back then. You didn't have this opportunity to earn hundreds of thousands of points not flying, there weren't large numbers of status upgrades- you could upgrade or "purchase" a premium cabin ticket with miles, but you weren't going to get to do that too often. And there were no TOD cash upgrades. So most people who flew F paid the full price for it.]
I completely forgot that the cocktails came out 2 at a time your drink + another little liquor bottle...even in economy if I recall correctly. On the original thread given UA was mostly domestic with a few international routes until they bought the Pan Am TPAC division ~1986, I'd say the F experience was far better than today and also involved the multi-course meals with trolley's to make salads, carve meat, select deserts and after dinner drinks as many have mentioned. Just about any major market from west coast to ORD or transcon was on a DC10 or 767; and they still used the DC-8s on secondary routes (ORD-Sacramento) that had a lot of F seats and were quite comfortable. A lot of the DC-10s then did short turns to places like ORD->CLE, DET, YYZ, PIT...as well as major east coast markets like BOS and PHL. ORD-->FL routes were pretty standard to have at least a few DC-10s as well. + the long lost Channel 9 was always an entertaining option if you didn't like the movie. I also remember being given free bottles of wine leaving the plane.
Frequencies weren't as great, but honestly, I'd still rather pick a domestic widebody with comfort and great service that runs every 2 hours to an hourly 737/A320 for a 4 flight. Great to see these are starting to come back into the rotation in some markets.