Were The Early 80's Really That Much Better On UA Than Now?
Dec 3, 2019, 11:43 am
#166
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The question in the title is a little more generic and specific. Generically, flying in coach or economy class in the 80s was much better than it is today no matter what airline you select. Specifically on United, I think Domestic F in the 80s was better than Domestic F today. Never flew international F on UA in the 80s but I did fly international F on TWA in the early 90s and I preferred it over international J today on UA. No way the food in international J on UA is better than on international F in the 80s. My connections then were about the same as now as there are still a limited number of international gateways. I didn't bother with lounges in the 80s or early 90s so can't compare but I find it hard to believe they were worse than the typical UA Club today -- there aren't enough Polaris lounges to make a fair comparison. As far as IFE goes, headsets/earbuds today are much better than the old uncomfortable ones of yesteryear but I usually carried books with me and didn't care about the movies. In Y, that's still the case.
As I said, paper tickets were like cash. It was theoretically possible to get one reissued but it wasn't an easy or quick process. As jsloan says, it was a lot like a check.
IIRC, non-refundable fares were an innovation that enabled price reductions in the non-regulated era. In the regulated era, the fare was the fare which is why the physical ticket was about like having a cashier's check. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_ticket), the IATA didn't get rid of paper tickets until June 1, 2008. I remember the tickets with red "carbon" imprints like this:
and I seem to recall they were sometimes hand-written. IIRC, this kind of ticket would get stapled to my boarding pass and then pulled when I boarded.
As I said, paper tickets were like cash. It was theoretically possible to get one reissued but it wasn't an easy or quick process. As jsloan says, it was a lot like a check.
IIRC, non-refundable fares were an innovation that enabled price reductions in the non-regulated era. In the regulated era, the fare was the fare which is why the physical ticket was about like having a cashier's check. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_ticket), the IATA didn't get rid of paper tickets until June 1, 2008. I remember the tickets with red "carbon" imprints like this:
and I seem to recall they were sometimes hand-written. IIRC, this kind of ticket would get stapled to my boarding pass and then pulled when I boarded.
What would have happened if the agent pulled the wrong coupon? This happened with my brother's ticket on our flight from LAX -> HNL sometime in the 90's. The Delta agent pulled the return portion of the ticket in my brother's ticket booklet. My dad caught it before boarding and it was rectified but what would happen if it wasn't caught? If the actual ticket coupons were like cashiers checks, what would have happened in HNL when we tried to checkin for our return flight?
Dec 3, 2019, 12:02 pm
#167
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OMG, I remember the boarding passes on AS. And when you went up to the gate podium to board the agent would check your boarding pass and use a pen/pencil to tick you off their piece of paper. This was in the 90's when my parents took the whole family to Cabo from LAX. Never flew WN during the plastic card days so can't chime in on that.
The question in the title is a little more generic and specific. Generically, flying in coach or economy class in the 80s was much better than it is today no matter what airline you select. Specifically on United, I think Domestic F in the 80s was better than Domestic F today. Never flew international F on UA in the 80s but I did fly international F on TWA in the early 90s and I preferred it over international J today on UA. No way the food in international J on UA is better than on international F in the 80s. My connections then were about the same as now as there are still a limited number of international gateways. I didn't bother with lounges in the 80s or early 90s so can't compare but I find it hard to believe they were worse than the typical UA Club today -- there aren't enough Polaris lounges to make a fair comparison. As far as IFE goes, headsets/earbuds today are much better than the old uncomfortable ones of yesteryear but I usually carried books with me and didn't care about the movies. In Y, that's still the case.
As I said, paper tickets were like cash. It was theoretically possible to get one reissued but it wasn't an easy or quick process. As jsloan says, it was a lot like a check.
IIRC, non-refundable fares were an innovation that enabled price reductions in the non-regulated era. In the regulated era, the fare was the fare which is why the physical ticket was about like having a cashier's check. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_ticket), the IATA didn't get rid of paper tickets until June 1, 2008. I remember the tickets with red "carbon" imprints like this:
and I seem to recall they were sometimes hand-written. IIRC, this kind of ticket would get stapled to my boarding pass and then pulled when I boarded.
As I said, paper tickets were like cash. It was theoretically possible to get one reissued but it wasn't an easy or quick process. As jsloan says, it was a lot like a check.
IIRC, non-refundable fares were an innovation that enabled price reductions in the non-regulated era. In the regulated era, the fare was the fare which is why the physical ticket was about like having a cashier's check. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_ticket), the IATA didn't get rid of paper tickets until June 1, 2008. I remember the tickets with red "carbon" imprints like this:
and I seem to recall they were sometimes hand-written. IIRC, this kind of ticket would get stapled to my boarding pass and then pulled when I boarded.
That coupon brought back some memories and another question.
What would have happened if the agent pulled the wrong coupon? This happened with my brother's ticket on our flight from LAX -> HNL sometime in the 90's. The Delta agent pulled the return portion of the ticket in my brother's ticket booklet. My dad caught it before boarding and it was rectified but what would happen if it wasn't caught? If the actual ticket coupons were like cashiers checks, what would have happened in HNL when we tried to checkin for our return flight?
What would have happened if the agent pulled the wrong coupon? This happened with my brother's ticket on our flight from LAX -> HNL sometime in the 90's. The Delta agent pulled the return portion of the ticket in my brother's ticket booklet. My dad caught it before boarding and it was rectified but what would happen if it wasn't caught? If the actual ticket coupons were like cashiers checks, what would have happened in HNL when we tried to checkin for our return flight?
Dec 3, 2019, 12:12 pm
#168
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It used to also be possible to have tickets with no associated reservation, but I'm pretty sure with eTicketing that is no longer possible.
Dec 3, 2019, 12:21 pm
#169
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It's worth noting that a reservation and an eTicket are still two distinct (but closely related) things. A reservation holds your space on the plane. The eTicket is the payment instrument for the flight. Most fares require a confirmed reservation that conforms to various requirements (ticketing time limit, advance purchase, etc.) before a ticket can be issued, but it is common for there to be un-ticketed reservations (e.g. most US Gov tickets aren't issued until a few days before departure). Checking in is the process of matching a reservation segment to a ticket coupon.
It used to also be possible to have tickets with no associated reservation, but I'm pretty sure with eTicketing that is no longer possible.
It used to also be possible to have tickets with no associated reservation, but I'm pretty sure with eTicketing that is no longer possible.
So would a correct analogy to our current system be the ticket is the "voucher" that United gives when one cancels their flight? Anyone can use the voucher if they have the number, like the tickets from the past. And the "reservation" would be when you actually book yourself on another flight?
Dec 3, 2019, 12:41 pm
#170
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Specifically on United, I think Domestic F in the 80s was better than Domestic F today. Never flew international F on UA in the 80s but I did fly international F on TWA in the early 90s and I preferred it over international J today on UA. No way the food in international J on UA is better than on international F in the 80s.
Last edited by 5khours; Dec 4, 2019 at 5:16 am
Dec 3, 2019, 2:14 pm
#172
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Video from someone else of United DC10. Tokyo - Seoul. OMG the meal at 16:48 looks delicious! And it is a coach meal.
Meal shot at 16:26
Meal shot at 16:26
Dec 3, 2019, 2:59 pm
#173
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Video from someone else of United DC10. Tokyo - Seoul. OMG the meal at 16:48 looks delicious! And it is a coach meal.
https://youtu.be/8c42AjDVWD4
Meal shot at 16:26
https://youtu.be/htBOTDCNZBQ
https://youtu.be/8c42AjDVWD4
Meal shot at 16:26
https://youtu.be/htBOTDCNZBQ
Dec 3, 2019, 3:08 pm
#174
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I believe WN switched over to paper boarding passes after Sept 11, when a boarding pass is required to go through TSA and to the secured area, and they can't hand out the plastic boarding passes from the check-in desks.
I believe they would place a re-validation sticker with the correct flight information on the paper ticket you have in hand, or they'll exchange the ticket you have in hand for a new ticket. This was the same procedure when you need to change your flight - after you make the change over the phone, you head over to a City Ticket Office or an airport counter and have the ticket re-validated. The sticker is basically a small strip, with the new dates/flight number written in. It's a different era, when a ticket still retained its value even after the flight departure, provided that it was not used. There was a prime example last year, when someone found an unused paper ticket, and United exchanged it for a voucher. https://www.travelandleisure.com/tra...m-19-years-ago
I believe they would place a re-validation sticker with the correct flight information on the paper ticket you have in hand, or they'll exchange the ticket you have in hand for a new ticket. This was the same procedure when you need to change your flight - after you make the change over the phone, you head over to a City Ticket Office or an airport counter and have the ticket re-validated. The sticker is basically a small strip, with the new dates/flight number written in. It's a different era, when a ticket still retained its value even after the flight departure, provided that it was not used. There was a prime example last year, when someone found an unused paper ticket, and United exchanged it for a voucher. https://www.travelandleisure.com/tra...m-19-years-ago
Dec 3, 2019, 3:14 pm
#175
Join Date: May 2010
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^
Of course, the pessimist in me thinks that it won't be too long that we will fondly look back at 3-4-3 in Economy, when they all go to standing seats:
...and:
https://www.insider.com/skyrider-sta...cheaper-2018-4
Dec 3, 2019, 3:22 pm
#176
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You'd need to steal the airline plate as well (a small card that looked like a credit card and imprinted the airline on the ticket stock). Paper tickets were more like checks than cash, so it'd be about like stealing a pad of blank checks from someone (or for that matter stealing a credit card back in the day when people did physical imprints and no authorization). And forged paper tickets were definitely a problem, just as forged checks were and still are.
Dec 3, 2019, 3:23 pm
#177
Join Date: Feb 2015
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In other words, consumers didn't value this stuff enough for it to be worthwhile.
The actual story about the decline in airline service is a story about the airlines following the wishes of their customers. Face it, if customers cared about service, Spirit just wouldn't be a profitable airline and no carrier would dare implement Basic Economy.
Dec 3, 2019, 4:18 pm
#178
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Ahhh - reading this thread brought back some great UA memories. I remember around 1985 (or 86?) when UA started their first European flights: ORD-FRA and ORD-CDG on 767s. Back then the 767 would also do ORD-LAX and LAX-ORD. I was going to school in Chicago and would visit family in LA. I would try to book the 767 flights between ORD-LAX. I remember the UA rez system on the domestic legs would treat the 767 J class seats as Y seats; this was on a 3-cabin 767. I would try to book row 7 and thus would get the 767 J seat. That was certainly a thrill!
I also remember when UA started ORD-LHR flights. There was a great ad campaign with a bowler hat that had the caption "Great. Britain.". Loved that.
I also remember when UA started ORD-LHR flights. There was a great ad campaign with a bowler hat that had the caption "Great. Britain.". Loved that.
Dec 3, 2019, 8:43 pm
#179
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I'm guessing all of the kimono wearing FA's came from PanAm since they've been running the service for longer?
Can anyone chime in on what Connoisseur Class was like? I was too young to fly it when it was still around, but I do know of couple of people who flew it to Paris. Was it single tray meals similar to what Premium Plus class is today?
Can anyone chime in on what Connoisseur Class was like? I was too young to fly it when it was still around, but I do know of couple of people who flew it to Paris. Was it single tray meals similar to what Premium Plus class is today?
Dec 3, 2019, 9:15 pm
#180
Join Date: Feb 2004
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The Connoisseur Class meals were actually pretty darn good. After dinner the FA's would go around with a large box of Godiva chocolates. The box was then left in the galley for pax to nibble on. That reminds me - I got op-ups to Connoisseur Class a few times, including SFO-LHR and NRT-SIN, both on 747s. Flying Connoisseur Class was a very enjoyable experience.
Last edited by tealeaf99; Dec 3, 2019 at 9:23 pm