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[Unconfirmed] UA Preparing to Sell E+ at Booking as Separate Cabin (like DL C+)

[Unconfirmed] UA Preparing to Sell E+ at Booking as Separate Cabin (like DL C+)

Old Nov 9, 19, 11:51 am
  #106  
 
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A potential plus: if E+ becomes a separate cabin like Delta C+, E to E+ will count as "upgrades", which means elites could report higher upgrade rates. Premier Silvers would probably have realistic upgrade chances.

Originally Posted by tallasadoor View Post
Pretty soon they will put a coin slot on the lavatory door.
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
Will I get PQP's for that?
No PQP's, since the lavatory will be free for elites - a new elite benefit
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Old Nov 9, 19, 11:58 am
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by Repooc17 View Post
Delta elites get C+; just like United elites get E+. Assuming one has the proper level, end results for both are the same.
? Not at all. Delta's C+ inventory is capacity controlled. United E+ is not. Delta gives Diamond and Platinum members + 1 guest an "upgrade" after booking if upgrade inventory exists. United lets 1K and Platinum members + 8 guests select Economy Plus seats at the time of booking, no capacity controls. Yes the DL upgrade bucket often has a similar number of seats as actually available, but not always. Further United lets Gold members + 1 guest select an Economy Plus seat at booking. There is no wait (however short) with United for 1Ks, Platinums and Golds.

Silver members can select any E+ seat at check-in - there's no waiting for an upgrade either. As long as the seat is there it is yours.
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Old Nov 9, 19, 12:08 pm
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by Austin787 View Post
A potential plus: if E+ becomes a separate cabin like Delta C+, E to E+ will count as "upgrades", which means elites could report higher upgrade rates. Premier Silvers would probably have realistic upgrade chances.
Only if no one buys the TOD upgrades to E+, which UA would offer for as little as $10.
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Old Nov 9, 19, 12:10 pm
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
If the economy keeps doing well and the load factors remain as they are the execs will look like geniuses implementing these new branded fares. If on the other hand we enter a recession and air travel tapers off they’ll sure regret shooing off their “bottom feeder” elites through reduction of benefits and increased earn requirements. Can UA make more marginal revenue by charging their lower and mid tier elites more for the same fare? Absolutely! But what they gain in short term revenue they’ll lose in long term loyalty. Many of us international travellers choose UA because it offers the lowest fares of the legacy, the best schedule, and good perks. When they start introducing complications for that like Economy Light (now Basic Economy) and new fare classes that in effect box in us k fare travellers those benefits erode.

I am not referring to those travelers. There are plenty of us that do 10-20k a year on our own dime (or with OPM). Personally I work for myself and make my own travel decisions. Some of what they do does in fact impact me - I have started buying F for some flights where before I might not have. That being said, I do it on whatever carrier makes sense. To me, there is no difference between UA/DL/AA first. In fact, on some of the international routes the non-US carriers are WAY better.

So take someone like me on which they make money and then make it so that I am airline agnostic. They have effectively made themselves a commodity for all but the biggest spenders. This is where it gets stupid IMHO - big spenders are likely less inclined to remain loyal to an airline. Why? that has been my experience when I buy F. I don't care who it is - just get me there and treat me well.

The economics of air travel is that fundamentally the product is a commodity. Sure there are levels of comfort one can purchase (F9 can downright torture) but I think the elasticity of that comfort is low for most but the travelers who fly $20k+ a year. Most travelers book at the lowest available fare and use upgrades to move up. Some book at higher levels, but I can't imagine that person cares too much about who they fly.

So, either I am way wrong about the economics of air travel (which is possible) or UA is doing something extremely stupid and short sighted. Maybe the average air traveler will continue to fly whoever they fly no matter what. Maybe hub captive people will just accept everything the airlines force on them because they have no choice (in there mind). I don't know - but at some point this has to begin to look like a netflix-esque decision.
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Old Nov 9, 19, 12:26 pm
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
Only if no one buys the TOD upgrades to E+, which UA would offer for as little as $10.
Well I mean UA doesn’t offer ToDs to PP do they? Could you imagine a screen during OLCI with three upgrade options: E+, PP and Polaris J?! Talk about option overload! Also and I could be mistaken here but I think DL’s equivalent of E+ is their PP so UA moving E+ to a separate cabin wouldn’t be a fare comparison with DL
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Old Nov 9, 19, 12:30 pm
  #111  
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Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter View Post
1. DL not only limited C+ to Platinum and above, but they limited the number of seats. I literally have to buy C+ tickets to get my family into C+. UA allows up to 8 right now. I would guess that they are trying to cater to their high dollar fliers without paying anything - make sure that C+ is available for that person spending $900 to fly ORD-MSY or whatever.
Right. DL seems to feel that this is necessary due to their smaller C+ cabins.

Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter View Post
2. I appreciate the screwing prior to Dec 31. I had already decided to leave UA, but if I had not this would have been a giant kick in the pants.
They've done nothing except create an E+ bundle -- something they've already had on their website for years. This entire thread is speculation about possible Premier devaluations.

Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter View Post
I am really confused by all of this - does UA not think their revenue will drop from this kind of behavior? Is there really that many people spending 20k+ a year traveling that they don't have to worry about the 10-20k people?
No matter what you may think of the motives of various corporate executives, none of them introduce a plan that they think will cause profits (not revenues) to drop.

Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
Only if no one buys the TOD upgrades to E+, which UA would offer for as little as $10.
They already offer E+ at whatever price point they want, first come, first served.

Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter View Post
So, either I am way wrong about the economics of air travel (which is possible) or UA is doing something extremely stupid and short sighted. Maybe the average air traveler will continue to fly whoever they fly no matter what. Maybe hub captive people will just accept everything the airlines force on them because they have no choice (in there mind). I don't know - but at some point this has to begin to look like a netflix-esque decision.
Again, they haven't done anything yet.

That said, UA is clearly betting on a strategy of "people will pay more to connect fewer times." While there is a great deal of competition domestically, there isn't much head-to-head, nonstop-to-nonstop competition.

Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
Also and I could be mistaken here but I think DL’s equivalent of E+ is their PP so UA moving E+ to a separate cabin wouldn’t be a fare comparison with DL
You are mistaken. C+ and E+ are similar products. DL also has a PE product called Premium Select.
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Old Nov 9, 19, 12:33 pm
  #112  
 
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Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
Also and I could be mistaken here but I think DL’s equivalent of E+ is their PP so UA moving E+ to a separate cabin wouldn’t be a fare comparison with DL
You are mistaken.

United E+ = Delta Comfort+
United PP = Delta Premium Select
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Old Nov 9, 19, 12:53 pm
  #113  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
They already offer E+ at whatever price point they want, first come, first served.
Sure, but this would give them the opportunity to dangle a last minute chance at E+ in front of no status pax, for as little money as they think will get people to bite. Maybe they passed over the opportunity for $60, but will $20 be low enough? $15?
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Old Nov 9, 19, 12:57 pm
  #114  
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Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
Sure, but this would give them the opportunity to dangle a last minute chance at E+ in front of no status pax, for as little money as they think will get people to bite. Maybe they passed over the opportunity for $60, but will $20 be low enough? $15?
They already do this. They give you a chance to change your seat assignment at any point during the check-in process.

And, due to UA having relatively large E+ cabins, on most routes, they end up seating quite a few no-status passengers in E+ at no charge. Implementing a DL-style system might have an effect on hub-hub routes. On other routes, it would be irritating, but I suspect that's all. (After all, most Silver passengers report good success getting E+ at check-in on most, if not all, of their flights).
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Old Nov 9, 19, 2:07 pm
  #115  
 
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Originally Posted by narvik View Post
You are mistaken.

United E+ = Delta Comfort+
United PP = Delta Premium Select
Not sure a 10 across E+ is fair comparison to 9 across C+
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Old Nov 9, 19, 2:19 pm
  #116  
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Originally Posted by tallasadoor View Post
Not sure a 10 across E+ is fair comparison to 9 across C+
That misses the point. E+ and C+ are analogs as extra legroom economy seats. And you can still find aircraft where the seat width is identical across the UA and DL fleets - i.e., all narrowbodies, and 767s.
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Old Nov 9, 19, 2:20 pm
  #117  
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It would be a material downgrade to a longtime and consistent benefit of Gold and 1MM.. if they removed e+ from the benefits, there'll be hell to pay for sure.

Just look at the kvetching about LT club members about same day access when not on UA/star... that's nothing compared to the dangers here,,
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Old Nov 9, 19, 3:05 pm
  #118  
 
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Its not like they cant do what they want - I understand they have the option to mess with pricing.

It is just so odd - if they hung out here (and I am sure they at least look) they would see us all up in arms about all of the adverse actions. If they read the thread on the poll it says half of us are leaving UA in some form.

Now, either people are lying in that thread, or UA really thinks that these changes will generate enough revenue to offset half the flyertalk UA universe leaving. maybe we are a small universe? maybe we don't really spend all that much?

I don't know, but I can see problems brewing for UA if they continue to restrict elites and their perks. Of course if DL and AA follow along then it wont matter. DL used to lead in the race to the bottom - they were the first to implement controls on C+ and begin restricting elites. Apparently UA said "hold my beer......".
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Old Nov 9, 19, 3:27 pm
  #119  
 
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I think the core issue that is irking folks here about this new fare is how UA is taking something that has been seen as entitlement (if you have Premier status) or a small fare add-on and potentially making it it's own separate fare and cabin class. If I'm not mistaken this is the way it has been at CoUniHound since the very beginning which goes back many years (perhaps decades?). Contrast this with PP where few(er) people were up in arms (aside from those being booted out of E+ seats on DOM routes) since it was a brand new cabin and service offering.

UA can rewrite the rules whenever they want but this lack of predictability and stability in their elite program and product offering calls into question why we should bother remaining loyal. Why not just sit back and wait for all this cabin/elite change nonsense to work itself out and fly OAL in the meantime? Once UA stabilities everything (or realizes the drop off in elite passengers is harming their bottom line) then maybe we'll come back and re-evaluate their product and elite program.
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Old Nov 9, 19, 3:37 pm
  #120  
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Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
I think the core issue that is irking folks here about this new fare is how UA is taking something that has been seen as entitlement (if you have Premier status) or a small fare add-on and potentially making it it's own separate fare and cabin class. If I'm not mistaken this is the way it has been at CoUniHound since the very beginning which goes back many years (perhaps decades?).
Silver status passengers would like to tell you that they once had E+ access at booking. pmCO didn’t have E+, but I remember exit rows and bulkhead seats being reserved for Premier status. I forget if you needed to be Silver or Gold to get them.

Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
UA can rewrite the rules whenever they want but this lack of predictability and stability in their elite program and product offering calls into question why we should bother remaining loyal. Why not just sit back and wait for all this cabin/elite change nonsense to work itself out and fly OAL in the meantime? Once UA stabilities everything (or realizes the drop off in elite passengers is harming their bottom line) then maybe we'll come back and re-evaluate their product and elite program.

Some passengers will. Most will not, for a plethora of reasons, including UA being the best choice for their travel patterns.

Furthermore, if UA were to copy DL’s C+ policies, that’s all it would be — a copy. So it’s not like the grass would be any greener elsewhere. The difference between DL and UA would be that UA has considerably more extra-legroom seats than DL does.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Nov 9, 19 at 4:46 pm Reason: Discuss the issue, not the poster(s)
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