Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Lifetime Member Edition: UC access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)

Lifetime Member Edition: UC access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)

    Hide Wikipost
Old Mar 2, 20, 9:19 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: texd
Wiki Link
So, is anything happening with this? Just curious (Oct 3, 2019)



If you paid cash for a lifetime Club membership and would like to join a potential class action due to this material change, please post your username here:
ctownflyer
hog Heaven
AAdmiral
nsx + 1
RichardInSF
Sykes
soartoday
lax2jfk2lax
libuser + 1
Xyzzy + 1
Buster CT1K
1K Student
Elitefreak
flyer austin + 1 (wiki-restricted member, added by IAH-OIL-TRASH)
Radonc1 + 1 (not a FT member but has LT membership)
Halo117
mikey
Mnmag
Vulcan
lateacher
kmersh
MazdaMP
bajong
sandiego1k
thesilb
HnlJay
nachosdelux
wtigerFF
a1bengal
benolaa
LeslieandDiane
SPN Lifer +1
YRKInsider
texd


If you received a lifetime Club membership from the UA MM program and would like to join a potential class action, please post your username here:
deek
honmani2
lax2jfk2lax (recd 2nd lifetime for hitting 2MM which I gifted)

Related thread: Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner) Original thread -- focused on the basic access issue, most lifetime membership posts have been moved to this lifetime thread



Print Wikipost

Old Nov 9, 19, 7:15 am
  #751  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: LHR/SFO
Programs: 1K (until 2021), *G for "life", Global Entry, Hertz PC, Cadbury's Rum and Raisin Emeritus
Posts: 16,327
So, playing devil's advocate, let's say they announce "lifetime membership", limited one-time offer, send us 5K by nn/nn/nnnn, then at nn/nn/nnnn+1 they change the rules, void it, and point at "we can do ... we like" weasel words would that stand up in a court of law? I am most certainly not a lawyer but there is surely some sort of "reasonable expecations" that comes into the mix for this?

I hope that you get what you paid for though as this is another example of corporate bullying and stonewalling.
Silver Fox is online now  
Old Nov 9, 19, 8:55 am
  #752  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike...
Programs: CO, NW & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 28,651
Originally Posted by Silver Fox View Post
So, playing devil's advocate, let's say they announce "lifetime membership", limited one-time offer, send us 5K by nn/nn/nnnn, then at nn/nn/nnnn+1 they change the rules, void it, and point at "we can do ... we like" weasel words would that stand up in a court of law? I am most certainly not a lawyer but there is surely some sort of "reasonable expecations" that comes into the mix for this?
Exactly - and to me, entry into a club that I paid to be a lifetime member of is a reasonable expectatin. We all agree that they can change amenities, locations, hours, etc. but when one purchases a membership one presumes one will be allowed to enter. It's not an unreasonable expectation.
SPN Lifer and Tanic like this.
Xyzzy is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 10:10 am
  #753  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Halo117 View Post
(added stipulations to access added after initial acceptance of purchased lifetime membership when no consideration given is unenforceable)
This is not true as a blanket statement.

Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
Exactly - and to me, entry into a club that I paid to be a lifetime member of is a reasonable expectatin. We all agree that they can change amenities, locations, hours, etc. but when one purchases a membership one presumes one will be allowed to enter. It's not an unreasonable expectation.
How about if UA converts a club into a Polaris club, subject to stricter admission rules. Is that prohibited?

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Nov 9, 19 at 10:36 am Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
dilanesp is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 10:32 am
  #754  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,361
I have been told that the club entry people are supposed to keep track of how many people they deny entry to. Not sure if they're keeping track of lifetime members separately from others. I hope so.
Mikey is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 10:48 am
  #755  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
How about if UA converts a club into a Polaris club, subject to stricter admission rules. Is that prohibited?
That would be equivalent to UA closing a UC. At the end of the day the lifetime membership was for United Clubs. Now what they could do is close all United Clubs, remodel them slightly and open them up as Premier Clubs only accessible to *G and J/F flyers. In which case your lifetime card would be as useful as a month old mouldy bagel
FlyerTalker70 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 11:34 am
  #756  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,815
Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
Now what they could do is close all United Clubs, remodel them slightly and open them up as Premier Clubs only accessible to *G and J/F flyers. In which case your lifetime card would be as useful as a month old mouldy bagel
I suspect UA would lose that lawsuit.

Part of the reason that they can deny Polaris access to UC customers is that they still run UCs in those same airports.

Incidentally, it's this kind of thing that shows why you rarely, if ever, see "lifetime" deals offered anymore. Businesses have learned the true cost of this sort of promise.
SPN Lifer likes this.
jsloan is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 11:42 am
  #757  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
I suspect UA would lose that lawsuit.

Part of the reason that they can deny Polaris access to UC customers is that they still run UCs in those same airports.
If I'm not mistaken, aside from LAX, all Polaris lounges operate at UA hubs like ORD where there would be an expectation for them to have *Gold lounges as well for international travellers flying *. That being said, we're still waiting for UA to open Polaris lounges at their largest hubs, namely LHR, TYO and HKG along with smaller hubs like the Dragon's DEN.

Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
Incidentally, it's this kind of thing that shows why you rarely, if ever, see "lifetime" deals offered anymore. Businesses have learned the true cost of this sort of promise.
If I'm not mistaken UA was selling these lifetime memberships as recently as 2011. In terms of the cost to administer lifetime promises, it's something I have no doubt UA factored when coming up with the program. The cost of adding an additional passenger to a lounge and purchasing additional cheese cubes is minimal. There's a world of difference between this program and AA's Lifetime AAirpass which offers lifetime system-wide F flights for which I doubt AA has substantial costs in administering.
FlyerTalker70 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 11:44 am
  #758  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 2,706
Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
Part of the reason that they can deny Polaris access to UC customers is that they still run UCs in those same airports.
I don't believe there is any requirement in the *A for at least one member airline to operate at least one *G lounge in every airport they fly to/from. They could simply convert all UCs to Polaris lounges and you would have no recourse. Or they could turn the only UC lounge into a simple room with small snacks and drinks and no restrooms, similar to HA's "lounge" (if you want to even call it that) at OGG.
STS-134 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 11:59 am
  #759  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
I don't believe there is any requirement in the *A for at least one member airline to operate at least one *G lounge in every airport they fly to/from. .
Perhaps not, although I'm not privy to the agreements airlines sign with *A in terms of amenities outside of what's in the publicly available Employee's Manual. What I can however say is there is an expectation that at least at the hub airports, *A airlines should provide a *G lounge. So yeah, while I wouldn't expect a UC at, say, SEA I would certainly expect to see one at an SFO or EWR. Could anyone name a full *A member who lacks any lounge at their major hubs?
FlyerTalker70 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 12:06 pm
  #760  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,815
Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
If I'm not mistaken, aside from LAX, all Polaris lounges operate at UA hubs like ORD where there would be an expectation for them to have *Gold lounges as well for international travellers flying *. That being said, we're still waiting for UA to open Polaris lounges at their largest hubs, namely LHR, TYO and HKG along with smaller hubs like the Dragon's DEN.
That's not the point. The point is that adding a separate tier of clubs, whilst maintaining the existing club, did not violate the UC rules (although there were a fair number of people on FT who were furious that their UC subscription didn't get them into the Polaris lounge. I assume they were also furious that it didn't get them into the old GFLs, but I didn't ask). You suggested that they could just close every UC, rename them all Polaris lounges, and lifetime members would be out of luck, and I disagree. I think that would be either breach of contract or fraud, depending upon how you looked at it.

Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
I don't believe there is any requirement in the *A for at least one member airline to operate at least one *G lounge in every airport they fly to/from. They could simply convert all UCs to Polaris lounges and you would have no recourse. Or they could turn the only UC lounge into a simple room with small snacks and drinks and no restrooms, similar to HA's "lounge" (if you want to even call it that) at OGG.
The number of UA airports with no lounges proves your first point. That doesn't mean that they could close every UC and open a new, similar lounge and refuse access to members, however. Your second approach might work, but generally the first would not. After all, I doubt anyone actually purchased a lifetime United Club subscription -- I don't think they were ever sold. They purchased a lifetime Presdient's Club or RCC subscription, and those still work, despite the complete lack of any President's Clubs or RCCs. UA would have had a hard time saying "Hey, the RCC no longer exists, so your lifetime membership is void, but you can buy a new annual subscription to our United Club!"
SPN Lifer likes this.
jsloan is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 12:07 pm
  #761  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 2,706
Originally Posted by j2simpso View Post
Perhaps not, although I'm not privy to the agreements airlines sign with *A in terms of amenities outside of what's in the publicly available Employee's Manual. What I can however say is there is an expectation that at least at the hub airports, *A airlines should provide a *G lounge. So yeah, while I wouldn't expect a UC at, say, SEA I would certainly expect to see one at an SFO or EWR. Could anyone name a full *A member who lacks any lounge at their major hubs?
I believe OU (Croatia Airlines) lacks any lounge at their hub at ZAG. There are only contract lounges there for *G members, but they are not run by any *A member airline.
STS-134 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 2:04 pm
  #762  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Westchester NY
Programs: UA GS 3.5MM
Posts: 297
Originally Posted by PaulMCO View Post
Further, United has not replaced lifetime members cards since the 2012 issue.

Unfortunately I bet United printing new cards with new terms...
Actually, they aren't. I have my annual Club cards going back to 2011. The language on all 8 cards is identical to the Lifetime language quoted in the pic above, including my card that expires in March 2020. All that changes year to year is the abbreviation in the lower right hand corner (now says UC2019 versus UC11010_c_UA 2011 back in 2011). My currently active card doesn't say anything about requiring a boarding pass to gain entrance. I am afraid you will need a better argument.
dkc715 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 2:25 pm
  #763  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Gold; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,546
Originally Posted by Halo117 View Post
Well the plot thickens...seems to me that the most current posted rules outlines that "benefits" are indeed separate from access. Plus they added language to state the new rules supersede any prior terms (added stipulations to access added after initial acceptance of purchased lifetime membership when no consideration given is unenforceable).We have screen shot proof from 2011 that access rules did not exist under terms.
Iím reading this as a deliberate attack on lifetime members. I find it arrogant and offensive. And to make matters worse, lifetime members were the only members who were not notified in writing by United of the change. Iím sure that this was for legal reasons. Meaning, what they have done to us may not even be legal. If their case was slam-dunk, why were lifetime members not given the same written notification as annual members/Club card holders?
SS255 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 2:34 pm
  #764  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by SS255 View Post
And to make matters worse, lifetime members were the only members who were not notified in writing by United of the change. Iím sure that this was for legal reasons. Meaning, what they have done to us may not even be legal. If their case was slam-dunk, why were lifetime members not given the same written notification as annual members/Club card holders?
Interesting point you raise! Looking at the United Club website nowhere do I see how these changes specifically impact Lifetime members:





If UA wanted to they could have specifically put in writing Lifetime members on these notices. However, they just broadly use the term members, likely because they didn't want to test the legal waters of saying something in writing that violates a term of the contract. This is to say nothing of those who are lifetime Red Carpet Club or President's club members who are not clearly listed on the terms either.
FlyerTalker70 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 19, 2:34 pm
  #765  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike...
Programs: CO, NW & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 28,651
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
How about if UA converts a club into a Polaris club, subject to stricter admission rules. Is that prohibited?
I'd say that in that case it's n longer a UA club. That happened in Newark.
Xyzzy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: