Nov 2, 2019, 11:43 pm
Last edit by: zebranz
So, is anything happening with this? Just curious (Oct 3, 2019)
If you paid cash for a lifetime Club membership and would like to join a potential class action due to this material change, please post your username here:
ctownflyer
hog Heaven
AAdmiral
nsx + 1
RichardInSF
Sykes
soartoday
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libuser + 1
Xyzzy + 1
Buster CT1K
1K Student
Elitefreak
flyer austin + 1 (wiki-restricted member, added by IAH-OIL-TRASH)
Radonc1 + 1 (not a FT member but has LT membership)
Halo117
mikey
Mnmag
Vulcan
lateacher
kmersh
MazdaMP
bajong
sandiego1k
thesilb
HnlJay
nachosdelux
wtigerFF
a1bengal
benolaa
LeslieandDiane
SPN Lifer +1
YRKInsider
texd
IAHtraveler
nzpilot
zebranz
If you received a lifetime Club membership from the UA MM program and would like to join a potential class action, please post your username here:
deek
honmani2
lax2jfk2lax (recd 2nd lifetime for hitting 2MM which I gifted)
seacarl
Related thread: Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner) Original thread -- focused on the basic access issue, most lifetime membership posts have been moved to this lifetime thread
If you paid cash for a lifetime Club membership and would like to join a potential class action due to this material change, please post your username here:
ctownflyer
hog Heaven
AAdmiral
nsx + 1
RichardInSF
Sykes
soartoday
lax2jfk2lax
libuser + 1
Xyzzy + 1
Buster CT1K
1K Student
Elitefreak
flyer austin + 1 (wiki-restricted member, added by IAH-OIL-TRASH)
Radonc1 + 1 (not a FT member but has LT membership)
Halo117
mikey
Mnmag
Vulcan
lateacher
kmersh
MazdaMP
bajong
sandiego1k
thesilb
HnlJay
nachosdelux
wtigerFF
a1bengal
benolaa
LeslieandDiane
SPN Lifer +1
YRKInsider
texd
IAHtraveler
nzpilot
zebranz
If you received a lifetime Club membership from the UA MM program and would like to join a potential class action, please post your username here:
deek
honmani2
lax2jfk2lax (recd 2nd lifetime for hitting 2MM which I gifted)
seacarl
Related thread: Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner) Original thread -- focused on the basic access issue, most lifetime membership posts have been moved to this lifetime thread
Lifetime Member Edition: UC access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)
Nov 5, 2019, 8:55 pm
#661
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,415
I don't know. The airline went bankrupt after some of these folks bought memberships. Some RCC's, like the one in Sacramento, closed and never reopened.
I'd say everyone who bought these knew that lounges were a kind of amorphous, changing product, and that you were betting on many things, including the airline staying around and the lounges staying open.
I'd say everyone who bought these knew that lounges were a kind of amorphous, changing product, and that you were betting on many things, including the airline staying around and the lounges staying open.
uld change amenities. I never in my wildest dreams imagined they would refuse my entry to the club.
Nov 5, 2019, 10:31 pm
#663
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Safe Travels,
James
Nov 5, 2019, 10:50 pm
#664
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,398
On the carrot plus stick side, I would plan to express (politely) your dissatisfaction with the new policy. If enough people complain to the lounge agents, that will eventually filter its way up to management also.
Nov 5, 2019, 10:53 pm
#665
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Document the date and the reason for refusal. If they're not too busy, ask if you can get a copy of the new policy in writing, although that's probably superfluous -- UA isn't going to contest the facts of your denial. The purpose is simply to gain standing to file for breach of contract. You generally can't sue just because a company says they're gong to break a contract; you want to show that they actually followed through and broke it.
On the carrot plus stick side, I would plan to express (politely) your dissatisfaction with the new policy. If enough people complain to the lounge agents, that will eventually filter its way up to management also.
On the carrot plus stick side, I would plan to express (politely) your dissatisfaction with the new policy. If enough people complain to the lounge agents, that will eventually filter its way up to management also.
-James
Nov 5, 2019, 10:55 pm
#666
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...es/access.html
Effective November 1, 2019, United Club customers, including members and their guests, and one-time pass holders will need to provide a same-day boarding pass for travel on United, Star Alliance or a contracted partner for entry into all United Club locations. See United Club terms and conditions
Nov 5, 2019, 10:59 pm
#667
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
I hadn't clicked on the terms and conditions for quite awhile - we all know they say they can change the terms at any time - I did notice they also have:
The Rules on united.com shall be deemed to supersede any prior or conflicting versions thereof.
United considers membership and/or use of any Lounge an acceptance of these Rules.
and.....
United reserves the right to terminate membership or remove any customer from a Lounge for any abuse of privileges (including inappropriate conduct), failure to follow these terms and conditions or failure to follow the rules of the United MileagePlus program. Membership in United MileagePlus is a prerequisite for a United Club membership and therefore a member’s termination from the United MileagePlus program will result in an immediate termination from the United Club membership without compensation.
Membership in MileagePlus may be important as that was a consideration in the Million Mile case
The Rules on united.com shall be deemed to supersede any prior or conflicting versions thereof.
United considers membership and/or use of any Lounge an acceptance of these Rules.
and.....
United reserves the right to terminate membership or remove any customer from a Lounge for any abuse of privileges (including inappropriate conduct), failure to follow these terms and conditions or failure to follow the rules of the United MileagePlus program. Membership in United MileagePlus is a prerequisite for a United Club membership and therefore a member’s termination from the United MileagePlus program will result in an immediate termination from the United Club membership without compensation.
Membership in MileagePlus may be important as that was a consideration in the Million Mile case
Nov 6, 2019, 12:01 am
#668
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
I hadn't clicked on the terms and conditions for quite awhile - we all know they say they can change the terms at any time - I did notice they also have:
The Rules on united.com shall be deemed to supersede any prior or conflicting versions thereof.
United considers membership and/or use of any Lounge an acceptance of these Rules.
and.....
United reserves the right to terminate membership or remove any customer from a Lounge for any abuse of privileges (including inappropriate conduct), failure to follow these terms and conditions or failure to follow the rules of the United MileagePlus program. Membership in United MileagePlus is a prerequisite for a United Club membership and therefore a member’s termination from the United MileagePlus program will result in an immediate termination from the United Club membership without compensation.
Membership in MileagePlus may be important as that was a consideration in the Million Mile case
The Rules on united.com shall be deemed to supersede any prior or conflicting versions thereof.
United considers membership and/or use of any Lounge an acceptance of these Rules.
and.....
United reserves the right to terminate membership or remove any customer from a Lounge for any abuse of privileges (including inappropriate conduct), failure to follow these terms and conditions or failure to follow the rules of the United MileagePlus program. Membership in United MileagePlus is a prerequisite for a United Club membership and therefore a member’s termination from the United MileagePlus program will result in an immediate termination from the United Club membership without compensation.
Membership in MileagePlus may be important as that was a consideration in the Million Mile case
UA will claim that if you entered a lounge after that, you accepted the new rule. Which, if upheld by a court, would force the plaintiff solely onto the ground of seeking to use the lounge while flying competitors, which is exactly what United wants any case to be about.
It further means if you are going to sue United, better do so before using any lounge post-11/1, because if you use it with a United ticket, you are accepting the new rule.
Nov 6, 2019, 6:42 am
#669
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,438
The 2nd one is pretty important because it ties in to the failure to challenge when UA pulled the gate passes.
UA will claim that if you entered a lounge after that, you accepted the new rule. Which, if upheld by a court, would force the plaintiff solely onto the ground of seeking to use the lounge while flying competitors, which is exactly what United wants any case to be about.
It further means if you are going to sue United, better do so before using any lounge post-11/1, because if you use it with a United ticket, you are accepting the new rule.
UA will claim that if you entered a lounge after that, you accepted the new rule. Which, if upheld by a court, would force the plaintiff solely onto the ground of seeking to use the lounge while flying competitors, which is exactly what United wants any case to be about.
It further means if you are going to sue United, better do so before using any lounge post-11/1, because if you use it with a United ticket, you are accepting the new rule.
Nov 6, 2019, 8:26 am
#670
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,398
I'm not even sure that they'd be on solid ground terminating a lifetime lounge membership for MileagePlus malfeasance, unless that was specifically called out in advance -- and, for members whose memberships are older than the mileage programs, that seems unlikely.
Nov 6, 2019, 9:26 am
#671
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,956
The 2nd one is pretty important because it ties in to the failure to challenge when UA pulled the gate passes.
UA will claim that if you entered a lounge after that, you accepted the new rule. Which, if upheld by a court, would force the plaintiff solely onto the ground of seeking to use the lounge while flying competitors, which is exactly what United wants any case to be about.
It further means if you are going to sue United, better do so before using any lounge post-11/1, because if you use it with a United ticket, you are accepting the new rule.
UA will claim that if you entered a lounge after that, you accepted the new rule. Which, if upheld by a court, would force the plaintiff solely onto the ground of seeking to use the lounge while flying competitors, which is exactly what United wants any case to be about.
It further means if you are going to sue United, better do so before using any lounge post-11/1, because if you use it with a United ticket, you are accepting the new rule.
United has figuratively punched their lifetime members. The first time (removing access without a same-day ticket) was the punch to the gut. But, it was relatively light and had no real material affect on my life. So I let it go and chalked it up to bad manners. The second punch really hurt, and will continue to hurt from time to time, and can no longer be dismissed as "bad manners."
Nov 6, 2019, 9:50 am
#672
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
Generally, "gotcha" clauses aren't enforceable. I.find it hard to believe that any court would find that (a) United made an impermissible change in benefits and (b) by continuing to make use of the remaining benefits -- i.e., not restricting oneself even further -- the customer acquiesced. However, to answer your specific question, if a court did find this clause enforceable, then, yes, objecting in writing but then continuing to use the club would be an acceptance of the terms akin to changing your mind. So, I guess that the best course of action for any individual probably depends upon risk tolerance and faith in the court.
I'm not even sure that they'd be on solid ground terminating a lifetime lounge membership for MileagePlus malfeasance, unless that was specifically called out in advance -- and, for members whose memberships are older than the mileage programs, that seems unlikely.
I'm not even sure that they'd be on solid ground terminating a lifetime lounge membership for MileagePlus malfeasance, unless that was specifically called out in advance -- and, for members whose memberships are older than the mileage programs, that seems unlikely.
You need to actually go to court before you use the lounge again, or you are probably SOL.
Me, either!
So, if somebody punches me in the gut, and I don't file assault charges...and then they punch me again in a more "sensitive" area and I decide to file assault charges...does this mean that I would lose the case because I didn't file the assault charges after the first punch?
United has figuratively punched their lifetime members. The first time (removing access without a same-day ticket) was the punch to the gut. But, it was relatively light and had no real material affect on my life. So I let it go and chalked it up to bad manners. The second punch really hurt, and will continue to hurt from time to time, and can no longer be dismissed as "bad manners."
So, if somebody punches me in the gut, and I don't file assault charges...and then they punch me again in a more "sensitive" area and I decide to file assault charges...does this mean that I would lose the case because I didn't file the assault charges after the first punch?
United has figuratively punched their lifetime members. The first time (removing access without a same-day ticket) was the punch to the gut. But, it was relatively light and had no real material affect on my life. So I let it go and chalked it up to bad manners. The second punch really hurt, and will continue to hurt from time to time, and can no longer be dismissed as "bad manners."
At any rate, the major import of not objecting to the elimination of gate passes is that it forces the plaintiff to talk about flying competitors rather than what some want to talk about, using the lounge while not flying. It shifts the ground. There's nothing analogous to that wrt battery.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Nov 6, 2019 at 1:13 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
Nov 6, 2019, 10:13 am
#673
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,398
That's not to say that I think a lawsuit will likely be successful, but if it is, I don't think UA will be able to point to this clause to exclude anyone.
Nov 6, 2019, 10:20 am
#674
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Verdi, NV, SFO & Olympic (aka Squaw )Valley.
Programs: Ikon Pass Full + AS Gold + Marriott Titanium + Hilton Gold. Recovering UA Plat. LT lounge AA+DL+UA
Posts: 3,823
Should we have something like a wiki or Google Spreadsheet to document the when/where/how/who gets denied access? If this looks like it will go down the legal path, my life experience is that proper documentation is a prerequisite for damages.
If a day pass sells for $59, it could be argued that every denial creates $59 of damages.
If a day pass sells for $59, it could be argued that every denial creates $59 of damages.
Nov 6, 2019, 10:30 am
#675
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,671
Should we have something like a wiki or Google Spreadsheet to document the when/where/how/who gets denied access? If this looks like it will go down the legal path, my life experience is that proper documentation is a prerequisite for damages.
If a day pass sells for $59, it could be argued that every denial creates $59 of damages.
If a day pass sells for $59, it could be argued that every denial creates $59 of damages.