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United Airlines Kicks Elderly Professor Couple Off Late-Night Flight

United Airlines Kicks Elderly Professor Couple Off Late-Night Flight

Old Sep 14, 19, 6:05 pm
  #106  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH View Post
You can use a screensaver to save as images (jpeg, for example) then upload. Without info from 3rd party witnesses though, it’s your word vs UA’s.

”Not disputing our version of the events” is not the same as agreeing that your version of the event occurred. If they did agree, the issue would have been resolved in your favor at that point.
Point taken. We would have liked that sharing our story would lead to better protections for other passengers.

Originally Posted by narvik View Post
A shame, but fully understandable. ^

In the end, this is just a silly internet forum where participants were discussing and sharing their opinion[s] about a posted news article.
There's really no need to justify yourselves to any of us. Although I would have liked to hear your thoughts on the accuracy of the Forbes article.

We 'voiced' our impressions of a situation in which we could also find ourselves, and tried to sieve through the information at hand, and imagined how we would have handled it,
provided our opinion on how you handled it, and how the FAs behaved (and subsequently the PIRC).

Not sure providing the documents you mentioned would be particularly beneficial, at this point.


Cheers.



P.S.: By the way, you may want to remove the red color from this part of your message: The red text is untrue.
Understood and thanks.

I do not believe the incident, as long as the UA policies and procedures continue to give its crew the unchecked authority, could have been avoided.

The only inaccuracy in the Forbes article is the part about UA reaching out to us to talk through the incident. UA has made no attempts to resolve the issue.

One confusion was why we had the need to show our BP, which is addressed in point #7 in our earlier posting.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 14, 19 at 6:32 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
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Old Sep 14, 19, 6:23 pm
  #107  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill View Post
UA has made no attempts to resolve the issue.
Because they consider the case closed. To them, there is nothing to resolve.
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Old Sep 14, 19, 8:44 pm
  #108  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
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@Jessie and Guill: Many thanks for sharing your story, and Welcome to FT! I'm already on record that hopefully UA has provided the FA with training and counseling related to de-escalation.

I wonder whether you could answer a few more questions:

1. Did the captain ever ask your side of the situation?

2. In reflection, do you believe that you could have done anything different which would have resulted in a better outcome?

3. Are you considering litigation?

Many thanks!
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Old Sep 15, 19, 12:00 am
  #109  
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Originally Posted by azepine00 View Post
Why?
Because once you put something onto a public forum, it becomes fair game for use by either party in a lawsuit. I suspect that most attorneys would prefer to have some control over when information is released. Furthermore, few people are experts in the law -- which is why we have lawyers in the first place. Suppose you posted a video about some situation, someone made a snarky comment, and you made a reply that, in some way that you didn't even realize, weakened your case. That message can then be used against you in court. (And, in fact, a later message suggests that their attorneys did, in fact, urge caution).

Originally Posted by ExplorerWannabe View Post
Bottom line, mistakes happen. People that insist on making it personal -- passengers, FAs, GAs, whatever -- generally just make a bad situation worse. The thicker someone lays it on, the less inclined I am to believe self-serving stories.
I agree completely.

Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill View Post
Finally, we needed to show the BP because the FA and GA were saying we sat in the wrong seats and refused to give them up (they never looked at our BP after the passengers behind us found the BP and passed it on to us). After the other passenger volunteered to take another seat, the FA went to the front and was talking to the pilot. We wanted to make sure she could not misrepresent the fact.
Notwithstanding the other items -- I agree that they probably don't need to be posted here, as I suspect that they say what you claim -- I suspect that this is where things really went astray. I suspect that this was seen as particularly threatening; if you're having an argument with someone, they disengage, and then you follow them and attempt to get their attention, many people are going to take this as an escalation. (I can't swear that I'd have behaved differently in the moment).

What confuses me isn't what's been posted, but rather what's been left out. A boarding pass proves nothing. They can be faked. Tickets can be cancelled. Your seat assignment could have been changed; you could have been upgraded. You could have been moved out of the exit row, for good reasons or for bad. The only thing that matters is the flight manifest in the computer (which is what's supposed to keep duplications from happening, anyway). The best representations that you can get of the manifest are the agents' copy (on their handheld devices) and your reservation in the United app / website.

Where did the agents tell you that you were supposed to sit?
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Old Sep 15, 19, 1:40 am
  #110  
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If they were going to sue I doubt a lawyer would recommend posting on FT or anywhere else.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:19 am
  #111  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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I feel there is some responsibility of the passenger to deescalate situations as well and whipping out a phone and video recording the situation is never a good way to deescalate.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:49 am
  #112  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
(And, in fact, a later message suggests that their attorneys did, in fact, urge caution)
It doesn't say it was an attorney urged caution.
It may well have been, but it could also have been their neighbor's daughter's best friend.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 8:22 am
  #113  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
The motive for embellishing a story against United, in preparation for a lawsuit, is obvious. The motive for catfishing FlyerTalk, somewhat less so.


Of course it can. There is very little that cannot be faked, given the time, money, and inclination.
I disagree. 1) if this was lawsuit prep they would not be here, way too many risks. 2) when you are engaged and preparing for a suit you present the truth and the motivation is most everything is discoverable. So there are actually disincentives for your approach as it would be likely taken down in the discovery process and jeopardize the case.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 8:59 am
  #114  
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Originally Posted by prestonh View Post
I disagree. 1) if this was lawsuit prep they would not be here, way too many risks. 2) when you are engaged and preparing for a suit you present the truth and the motivation is most everything is discoverable. So there are actually disincentives for your approach as it would be likely taken down in the discovery process and jeopardize the case.
Truth tends to be subjective. Comments to the press by prospective plaintiffs tend to present one side of a story, and in the best possible light. I didn't intend "embellishment" to mean "outright fabrication," but rather things like omitting / downplaying exculpatory factors.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 9:14 am
  #115  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
Truth tends to be subjective. Comments to the press by prospective plaintiffs tend to present one side of a story, and in the best possible light. I didn't intend "embellishment" to mean "outright fabrication," but rather things like omitting / downplaying exculpatory factors.
as I understand it, WRT subjective, litigation surrounds facts and evidence in a case. So if you are referring to a story without facts/evidence, then ok. But if you are referring to facts and evidence that supports the facts then I don't follow.

I'm just not convinced they are here as part or prep for a suit. It possibly does not support their case and presents many additional risks.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 9:24 am
  #116  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Originally Posted by jackvogt View Post
I love how the author of the article disclosed he owned stock in American, Jetblue and Southwestern airlines. An author looses credibility when they do stupid stuff like that.
It is Forbes. When you deal with stocks and investments you have (should) disclose.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 12:54 pm
  #117  
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The focus on height, or relative heights, is beyond ridiculous. There's no minimum height to assault someone or maximum height to be a victim.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 1:28 pm
  #118  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,130
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
The focus on height, or relative heights, is beyond ridiculous. There's no minimum height to assault someone or maximum height to be a victim.
Agree 100%. As well as whether someone is a grandmother, etc., or not.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 3:33 pm
  #119  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
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Originally Posted by 747FC View Post
@Jessie and Guill: Many thanks for sharing your story, and Welcome to FT! I'm already on record that hopefully UA has provided the FA with training and counseling related to de-escalation.

I wonder whether you could answer a few more questions:
1. Did the captain ever ask your side of the situation?

Paragraphs below are excerpted from our response to PIRC in our description of the events. Note Flight Attendant A is not the one that took/dropped our BP. Potential personal information has been replaced by xxx.

"We were greeted by Flight Attendant A when we entered the aircraft. I was impressed by her warm and pleasant demeanor and complimented her on her cheerfulness. Flight Attendant A told us that she was pleased to xxx. We then proceeded to our seats, settled in and continued to be pleased with how well the day had gone."

"Flight Attendant A replied “I’ll talk to her and see what … and she’s talking to the pilot and we’ll let you know what happened, OK? I am not sure what happened. I wasn’t there”. My husband said “No, you were not there, but it would be an outrage, wouldn’t it?” Flight Attendant A responded “It would be unfortunate, yes. Let’s hope we can work it out.”

"My husband and I returned to our seats. A short while later, Flight Attendant A came and asked us to tell her what had happened. We explained that we were in our assigned seats, that we gave the paper boarding pass to FAB who apparently dropped it on the floor near 23C and then accused us of lying and threatened to have us removed from the plane, but that we were glad the situation appeared to be resolved and we did not want any escalation. Flight Attendant A told that she would relate the information and also hoped for the same.".

"Throughout the whole event inside the plane, neither the captain nor the co-pilot visited or talked with us. However, upon leaving the plane we saw a pilot standing on the jet bridge with Mr. xxx (UA Customer Care agent), which I assume is to justify the act of removing us from the plane."


2. In reflection, do you believe that you could have done anything different which would have resulted in a better outcome?

As stated above, we tried repeatedly to work with the UA crew and to de-escalate the confrontation. I am not sure what more could have been done. That said, we believe the Dao incident has led to some positive changes and hope UA and the airline industry continue to improve their practices and offer more protections to air passengers.

3. Are you considering litigation?

Litigation cannot get UA or airline industry to improve their policies or procedures. Only regulatory bodies such as Department of Transportation and Congressional Committee of Transportation can.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 15, 19 at 7:33 pm Reason: partial repair of quote
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Old Sep 15, 19, 4:10 pm
  #120  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,997
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
The focus on height, or relative heights, is beyond ridiculous...
If anyone’s boarded an Air China plane at Guangzhou in the 1990s (the terminal door is opened and everyone runs to the foot of the air stairs), they know height has zero correlation to belligerence or aggressiveness.
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