Originally Posted by quantumslip
(Post 31522166)
And you forget to look up the definition of offensive contact. It is not "oh I think it is offensive".
Looking at the referenced papers, what I see is "offends a reasonable sense of personal dignity". Key word being reasonable. It is not "I think it is", it is reasonable. And "reasonable person" I know is a common test in the courts to determine if others in the same situation would have acted/felt the same. Was it reasonable in this situation? Honestly I don't know, though I do feel that while not wanted, it wasn't offensive. That's the grey area of this case, and without all the facts and perspectives we can't say 100% for sure either way. Again IANAL.
Originally Posted by calcrim 960
The slightest touching can be enough to commit a battery if it is done in a rude or angry way. Making contact with another person, including through his or her clothing, is enough. The touching does not have to cause pain or injury of any kind.
This would never* get charged though. Perfect nullification case. *DAs have shocked me before with pettiness. |
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 31522978)
It's two people. One can walk while the other records.
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People-facing employees are going to have to start wearing front- and back-facing recording equipment to protect themselves.
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Well - I do know this - for me personally, in this post 9/11 world, I would never touch or grab a flight crew member with their back to me. I don't really do it anyway since it tends to startle people, including myself.
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 31522978)
It's two people. One can walk while the other records.
"By this time a gate agent had arrived to assist the flight attendant, and the other person assigned the same seat had been seated elsewhere. When another passenger handed them the dropped boarding pass, the Wientjes say, they tried to get the attention of the flight attendant. They were ignored. “They had their back to me. I said,“We have the pass here it is,” says Dr. Au. They ignored her “until I tapped her elbow from her seat. “’I just want to show you.’”" Which is also echoed here in post 75 "I tapped her elbow because i was seated and could not reach her shoulder. I needed to show her the BP because she had, long before i tapped her elbow, threatened to remove us from the flight because we refused to leave our seat" Now it seems there was another attempt by the same passenger to show the boarding pass when the FA was at the cockpit "We would like to submit a video, which shows Jessie walking up to the FA (FA had threatened to take us off the flight and was talking to other crew members near the cockpit, presumably about the same) to show the FA the BP. Jessie started off saying that Jessie did not want troubles and before Jessie could finish her sentence, the FA said aggressively/yelled that "you are coming out...you are coming out". FARK does not accept mp4 file. We will make it into a ytube file and provides the link as soon as it is done. The video will further shows the FA being substantially taller." I have to admit also being bit confused, Who took the video if it was near the cockpit? That is a bit of distance from row 21. How many attempts were there to show the boarding pass? |
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
(Post 31523020)
People-facing employees are going to have to start wearing front- and back-facing recording equipment to protect themselves.
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Originally Posted by mmack
(Post 31523018)
Well, I thought the point made was that the seated passenger , presumably in the aisle seat, touched the FA on her elbow, BECAUSE the passenger was seated and couldn't reach her shoulder.
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
(Post 31522514)
I have seen flight attendants get annoyed, report made-up occurrences, and cause all kinds of issues for passengers who did nothing wrong.
*Don'tYouKnowIAmAFlightAttendant |
Originally Posted by jsloan
(Post 31522442)
Welcome to FlyerTalk!
If you intend to pursue legal action against United -- I'm on the record as assuming you are, ... If ppl get poor treatment at hotel or some business they go and post a review with negative feedback, write to cs etc etc.. this is really not dao like situation where things escalated out of control (and i thank pax for remaining calm and avoiding extreme confrontation) |
Originally Posted by azepine00
(Post 31524662)
...and i thank pax for remaining calm...
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Originally Posted by bagwell
(Post 31520638)
The gate agent only goes by what the computer system gives them for seat assignments, so it wasn't the gate agent that actually assigned dupe seats. May have been a software/computer glitch or something.....I fly twice a week on United and I can't EVER remember seeing dupe seat assignments, except when a PAX is looking at their connecting flight boarding pass in error or back in the old days before the computer assignments.
Bottom line, mistakes happen. People that insist on making it personal -- passengers, FAs, GAs, whatever -- generally just make a bad situation worse. The thicker someone lays it on, the less inclined I am to believe self-serving stories. |
We have been advised not to provide video to avoid unnecessary litigation risks. We will provide instead three documents that UA already has access to:(a) an email from UA Passenger Incident Review Committee on June 24/25 demanding a response within 96 hours or face a life-time ban from UA (note it was sent to each of us at 1 am, or 2-3 hours after we were removed from the flight), (b) our response to PIRC, outlining the events on the plane, and (c) a decision letter from PIRC at end of August calling us belligerent, etc. Items (a) and (c) are in a single file.
Our PIRC response is a bit long but details most of the events and should clear up the confusions voiced by several contributors. Please note:
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You can use a screensaver to save as images (jpeg, for example) then upload. Without info from 3rd party witnesses though, it’s your word vs UA’s.
”Not disputing our version of the events” is not the same as agreeing that your version of the event occurred. If they did agree, the issue would have been resolved in your favor at that point. |
Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill
(Post 31525550)
We have been advised not to provide video to avoid unnecessary litigation risks.
In the end, this is just a silly internet forum where participants were discussing and sharing their opinion[s] about a posted news article. There's really no need to justify yourselves to any of us. Although I would have liked to hear your thoughts on the accuracy of the Forbes article. We 'voiced' our impressions of a situation in which we could also find ourselves, and tried to sieve through the information at hand, and imagined how we would have handled it, provided our opinion on how you handled it, and how the FAs behaved (and subsequently the PIRC). Not sure providing the documents you mentioned would be particularly beneficial, at this point. Cheers. P.S.: By the way, you may want to remove the red color from this part of your message: The red text is untrue. |
Originally Posted by wco81
(Post 31521544)
How is a 5-3 grandmother physically threatening?
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