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United Airlines Kicks Elderly Professor Couple Off Late-Night Flight

United Airlines Kicks Elderly Professor Couple Off Late-Night Flight

Old Sep 13, 19, 1:25 pm
  #61  
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Even if the small lady was hostile or aggressive, there's only so much she could do without really being prosecuted for assault.

Maybe she took out house keys and tried to gouge the stewardess' arm.

Because unless the stewardess was as small or smaller than the passenger, it's hard to conceive of her being able to assault anyone, without a weapon of some kind.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 1:32 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault

Sorry, the law does include the word "Intentional," which I left out. But I'm not wrong, and I'm not trivializing anything.
That link also talks about reasonable apprehension, which eliminates your belief that any unwanted touch can be considered assault. Of course then it comes down to what's considered reasonable, which is up to the judge and stuff to decide. Being lightly bumped on a crowded subway for example can't be considered assault under reasonable circumstances. Being groped on a crowded subway is. But based on the prima facie list they have there, in this case (IANAL) I would think any charges would not stick.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 1:37 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
How is a 5-3 grandmother physically threatening?
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Because unless the stewardess was as small or smaller than the passenger, it's hard to conceive of her being able to assault anyone, without a weapon of some kind.
This may be the first time the assertion is made that a physically smaller grandmother is incapable of assaulting a taller non-grandmother.

Although I don't actually believe an assault took place in this story; more like a hysterical passenger that didn't seem to be able to (or want to) calm down.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 1:44 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by quantumslip View Post
That link also talks about reasonable apprehension, which eliminates your belief that any unwanted touch can be considered assault.
Reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact. Unwanted touch is offensive contact.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that the FA should press charges, or that a prosecuting attorney would agree to do so. I am suggesting that if you touch a FA to get her attention, you shouldn't expect to be treated well after that. (And, again, this is the passenger's POV -- she's going to minimize the contact).
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Old Sep 13, 19, 1:44 pm
  #65  
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Isn't this actually battery?
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Old Sep 13, 19, 1:58 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
Reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact. Unwanted touch is offensive contact.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting that the FA should press charges, or that a prosecuting attorney would agree to do so. I am suggesting that if you touch a FA to get her attention, you shouldn't expect to be treated well after that. (And, again, this is the passenger's POV -- she's going to minimize the contact).
And you forget to look up the definition of offensive contact. It is not "oh I think it is offensive".

Looking at the referenced papers, what I see is "offends a reasonable sense of personal dignity". Key word being reasonable. It is not "I think it is", it is reasonable. And "reasonable person" I know is a common test in the courts to determine if others in the same situation would have acted/felt the same.

Was it reasonable in this situation? Honestly I don't know, though I do feel that while not wanted, it wasn't offensive. That's the grey area of this case, and without all the facts and perspectives we can't say 100% for sure either way. Again IANAL.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 2:05 pm
  #67  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
FAs sometimes touch passengers, for example to wake someone for breakfast. Can the FA then be fired for assaulting the customer?
Good grief. I'm a skinny guy, yet every time I'm in an aisle seat I get "battered" by FAs bounding through the cabin. I'm talking elbows and hips, not carts (thankfully).
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Old Sep 13, 19, 2:08 pm
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Originally Posted by narvik View Post
This may be the first time the assertion is made that a physically smaller grandmother is incapable of assaulting a taller non-grandmother.

Although I don't actually believe an assault took place in this story; more like a hysterical passenger that didn't seem to be able to (or want to) calm down.
She tapped the FA on the elbow. I'm thinking if she had actually tried to shove the FA she would have suffered a broken wrist.
And how do get to "hysterical" from this report?
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Old Sep 13, 19, 2:30 pm
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Originally Posted by rickg523 View Post
She tapped the FA on the elbow.
According to her.

Originally Posted by rickg523 View Post
And how do get to "hysterical" from this report?
How do you not?

(hysterical = marked by excessive or uncontrollable emotion)


Added:
If FT members were on the jury of a fictitious trial of this case, it would be a hung jury!
Unless, of course, we'd hear a differing & believable story from the other or 3rd party to the event.

Last edited by narvik; Sep 13, 19 at 2:37 pm
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Old Sep 13, 19, 2:35 pm
  #70  
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BTW, why was the male professor kicked off the flight? I haven't seen any accusations that he did anything wrong. He was just sitting in the seat that was assigned to him.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 2:47 pm
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I didn't see anything in the story about removing them from their seat due to the seat assignment, only due to the argument afterwards. The couple was already seated. It sounds like if they took no action and went along with the FA, there would have be no issue and no incident. They were Group 1 which would suggest one of them was a fairly frequent UA traveler (though not necessarily). It is not uncommon to have a double seat assignment towards the end of boarding. Sounds like another DYKWIA "Doctor" found a "journalist". All the references to the previous incident in the article use poor wording and make it sound like a UA FA was involved in that "doctor's" injuries.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 3:20 pm
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Rickg523, thank you for your thoughtful analysis. We are the couple in the story. We would like to submit a video, which shows Jessie walking up to the FA (FA had threatened to take us off the flight and was talking to other crew members near the cockpit, presumably about the same) to show the FA the BP. Jessie started off saying that Jessie did not want troubles and before Jessie could finish her sentence, the FA said aggressively/yelled that "you are coming out...you are coming out". FARK does not accept mp4 file. We will make it into a ytube file and provides the link as soon as it is done. The video will further shows the FA being substantially taller.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 3:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill View Post
Rickg523, thank you for your thoughtful analysis. We are the couple in the story. We would like to submit a video, which shows Jessie walking up to the FA (FA had threatened to take us off the flight and was talking to other crew members near the cockpit, presumably about the same) to show the FA the BP. Jessie started off saying that Jessie did not want troubles and before Jessie could finish her sentence, the FA said aggressively/yelled that "you are coming out...you are coming out". FARK does not accept mp4 file. We will make it into a ytube file and provides the link as soon as it is done. The video will further shows the FA being substantially taller.
Hello, welcome to FT,
and thank you for joining as "Jessie and Guill" and attempting to clear up some of the issues related to this event.
^
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Old Sep 13, 19, 3:34 pm
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill View Post
Rickg523, thank you for your thoughtful analysis. We are the couple in the story. We would like to submit a video, which shows Jessie walking up to the FA (FA had threatened to take us off the flight and was talking to other crew members near the cockpit, presumably about the same) to show the FA the BP. Jessie started off saying that Jessie did not want troubles and before Jessie could finish her sentence, the FA said aggressively/yelled that "you are coming out...you are coming out". FARK does not accept mp4 file. We will make it into a ytube file and provides the link as soon as it is done. The video will further shows the FA being substantially taller.
Welcome to FlyerTalk!

If you intend to pursue legal action against United -- I'm on the record as assuming you are, so I may as well own up to that -- I suggest that you consult with your attorney before making any further statements or posting any videos.
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Old Sep 13, 19, 3:37 pm
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Originally Posted by narvik View Post
Hello, welcome to FT,
and thank you for joining as "Jessie and Guill" and attempting to clear up some of the issues related to this event.
^
Happy to.
I tapped her elbow because i was seated and could not reach her shoulder.
I needed to show her the BP because she had, long before i tapped her elbow, threatened to remove us from the flight because we refused to leave our seat (which was assigned to us days before and we were seated by the time the passenger with duplicated seat assignment).
We waited for the PIRC review process to complete before telling pur story. PIRC released its decision at the end of August.

Turns out one must have at least 5 posts before one can post a ytube link.
We will do two more posts
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Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 13, 19 at 6:51 pm Reason: merged consecutive posts by same member
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