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-   -   ORD-FRA @ 2:25 PM - Removed during end of year holiday period? Advice please (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1983411-ord-fra-2-25-pm-removed-during-end-year-holiday-period-advice-please.html)

LordDenton Aug 17, 2019 12:21 pm

ORD-FRA @ 2:25 PM - Removed during end of year holiday period? Advice please
 
A couple of months ago I booked a flight out of ORD at 2:25pm on December 24 with a connection in FRA (inside Schengen). The flight was to leave ORD at 2:25 pm, layover for 5 hours in FRA, and then take the next leg to my final destination (FCO).

I randomly checked my reservation today and noticed that United had somehow moved me to the flight out of ORD at 6:05pm. No notification or anything like that... But United's IT is besides the point. This change leaves me with only 1hr of connection time in FRA

After searching flight options seems there is now literally only one direct flight on that day: the UA at 6:05pm. Not even LH is flying that day.

My question is: should I wait for the 2:25 pm flight to eventually return or should I already rebook myself with a connection out of say IAD? I really hate adding a domestic connection to such a flight because of high chance of IRROPS during that season.
Is there even a chance the 2:25 pm flight will return?

emcampbe Aug 17, 2019 12:28 pm


Originally Posted by LordDenton (Post 31426995)
A couple of months ago I booked a flight out of ORD at 2:25pm on December 24 with a connection in FRA (inside Schengen). The flight was to leave ORD at 2:25 pm, layover for 5 hours in FRA, and then take the next leg to my final destination (FCO).

I randomly checked my reservation today and noticed that United had somehow moved me to the flight out of ORD at 6:05pm. No notification or anything like that... But United's IT is besides the point. This change leaves me with only 1hr of connection time in FRA

After searching flight options seems there is now literally only one direct flight on that day: the UA at 6:05pm. Not even LH is flying that day.

My question is: should I wait for the 2:25 pm flight to eventually return or should I already rebook myself with a connection out of say IAD? I really hate adding a domestic connection to such a flight because of high chance of IRROPS during that season.
Is there even a chance the 2:25 pm flight will return?

likely not. Around the holidays, they reduce frequency on certain days due to reduced business demand. In fact, we flew to India via FRA last year on Xmas day, and when looking around, noting hat different frequencies weren’t running. The day we flew out, both UA FRA flights were running, but I think the LH one didn’t. On Xmas eve and day after Xmas, only one of the two were running, IIRC.

This comes up up multiple times a year - with people wondering why X flight isn’t running on whatever day around Xmas, Thanksgiving or New Years. For some international destinations, they rotate hubs. For example, to NRT, the SFO, DEN and IAD flights might run one day around the holidays, while they won’t run the following day and LAX, ORD and IAH will. Those are examples only.

UA isn’t the only carrier to do this around this time. For example, going onto BLR from FRA, which is typically daily on LH, they only run I think 4 x that Xams week, or at least did last year.

JimInOhio Aug 17, 2019 12:29 pm

Are you shocked UA and LH are operating with a reduced schedule on Christmas Eve? All you should be concerned with is whether LH has a later flight from FRA to FCO on Christmas day (IMHO). They probably do but it’s worth a quick check.

WineCountryUA Aug 17, 2019 12:32 pm

Holiday schedule reductions are common and assuming this is not a fat finger error, it will not come back. So if not reversed in a day or two, it is real.

1 HR is the MCT for UA at FRA (assuming you are talking LH connecting)

TomMM Aug 17, 2019 12:33 pm

Assuming you are flying FRA-FCO on LH, correct? If so, they have a later non-stop flight and other flights with connections to FCO.

sannmann Aug 17, 2019 12:33 pm


Originally Posted by LordDenton (Post 31426995)
A couple of months ago I booked a flight out of ORD at 2:25pm on December 24 with a connection in FRA (inside Schengen). The flight was to leave ORD at 2:25 pm, layover for 5 hours in FRA, and then take the next leg to my final destination (FCO).

I randomly checked my reservation today and noticed that United had somehow moved me to the flight out of ORD at 6:05pm. No notification or anything like that... But United's IT is besides the point. This change leaves me with only 1hr of connection time in FRA

After searching flight options seems there is now literally only one direct flight on that day: the UA at 6:05pm. Not even LH is flying that day.

My question is: should I wait for the 2:25 pm flight to eventually return or should I already rebook myself with a connection out of say IAD? I really hate adding a domestic connection to such a flight because of high chance of IRROPS during that season.
Is there even a chance the 2:25 pm flight will return?

Probably not. Looks like they cancelled that flight that day. Stick with what you were rebooked to or call and get rebooked to another flight. An hour connection at FRA is not a problem unless the first flight is delayed.

cfischer Aug 17, 2019 1:00 pm

with such a schedule change you can ask pretty much for any re-routing. Is LX via ZRH operating that day? That's a decent option IMO.

fumje Aug 17, 2019 1:54 pm

How about requesting they put you on

UA609 1125 ORD - 1432 EWR
UA40 1745 EWR - 0805(+1) FCO

?

It's all UA metal, so they can open space, and the high frequency of ORD-EWR means you can probably get something worked out in case of IRROPS. Also, if you booked in J, there is a Polaris Lounge both at origin and connection.

MSPeconomist Aug 17, 2019 2:02 pm


Originally Posted by LordDenton (Post 31426995)
A couple of months ago I booked a flight out of ORD at 2:25pm on December 24 with a connection in FRA (inside Schengen). The flight was to leave ORD at 2:25 pm, layover for 5 hours in FRA, and then take the next leg to my final destination (FCO).

I randomly checked my reservation today and noticed that United had somehow moved me to the flight out of ORD at 6:05pm. No notification or anything like that... But United's IT is besides the point. This change leaves me with only 1hr of connection time in FRA

After searching flight options seems there is now literally only one direct flight on that day: the UA at 6:05pm. Not even LH is flying that day.

My question is: should I wait for the 2:25 pm flight to eventually return or should I already rebook myself with a connection out of say IAD? I really hate adding a domestic connection to such a flight because of high chance of IRROPS during that season.
Is there even a chance the 2:25 pm flight will return?

Do you have a separate ticket for FRA-FCO?

milepig Aug 17, 2019 2:02 pm

There’s also a 1:55pm departure on Air Canada via Toronto. I’d try for that as it’s close to your original time and gets into FCO earlier on the 25th.

MSPeconomist Aug 17, 2019 2:04 pm


Originally Posted by milepig (Post 31427260)
There’s also a 1:55pm departure on Air Canada via Toronto. I’d try for that as it’s close to your original time and gets into FCO earlier on the 25th.

I wouldn't. I hate doing USA-CAN-other connections due to the separate airport areas for transborder flights.

fumje Aug 17, 2019 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 31427259)
Do you have a separate ticket for FRA-FCO?

Good question. If so, no way to avoid adding a connection somewhere en route to FRA.

andrewesque Aug 17, 2019 3:29 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 31427267)
I wouldn't. I hate doing USA-CAN-other connections due to the separate airport areas for transborder flights.

Isn't waiting in the transborder area applicable only to the other way around, i.e. international-Canada-USA? On a USA-Canada-international itinerary won't you proceed to the departure areas for all non-transborder international flights, i.e. spend minimal time in the transborder area? (I know on the other way around you end up waiting in the transborder area because you have to clear US preclearance at the Canadian connection point.)

MSPeconomist Aug 17, 2019 3:35 pm

Yes but IIRC some airports make you enter Canada first and I've heard of people having to wait in a holding pen before the international departure. I don't know specifically what the current transborder to international transit path would be at Toronto.

cfischer Aug 17, 2019 3:54 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 31427492)
Yes but IIRC some airports make you enter Canada first and I've heard of people having to wait in a holding pen before the international departure. I don't know specifically what the current transborder to international transit path would be at Toronto.

:confused:

you directly go to the intercontinental departure area when you arrive from the US and connect TATL and TPAC in YYZ

milepig Aug 17, 2019 4:10 pm


Originally Posted by cfischer (Post 31427544)
:confused:

you directly go to the intercontinental departure area when you arrive from the US and connect TATL and TPAC in YYZ

correct. You need to be heads up. But you make a sharp turn when the main route is straight and the there’s a person who waves you past and you’re done.

emcampbe Aug 17, 2019 4:24 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 31427492)
Yes but IIRC some airports make you enter Canada first and I've heard of people having to wait in a holding pen before the international departure. I don't know specifically what the current transborder to international transit path would be at Toronto.

OP would go directly to ‘customs B’, which is a cursory check by the Canadians, and after clearing, drops them in the international gate area. No extra security either. The only way they wouldn’t be able to do that is if they arrive and ‘customs B’ is closed, but that doesn’t happen until sometime in the evening, so assuming a standard connection to an evening TATL, shouldn’t be a problem.

milepig Aug 17, 2019 4:29 pm


Originally Posted by emcampbe (Post 31427610)


OP would go directly to ‘customs B’, which is a cursory check by the Canadians, and after clearing, drops them in the international gate area. No extra security either. The only way they wouldn’t be able to do that is if they arrive and ‘customs B’ is closed, but that doesn’t happen until sometime in the evening, so assuming a standard connection to an evening TATL, shouldn’t be a problem.

or if they miss the sign, which I almost did. The INTL area is fine including a Maple Leaf Lounge.

LordDenton Aug 17, 2019 5:22 pm

Thank you so much for the advice. Clarifies a lot for me.

Actually I do want to connect in FRA. My wife is flying at the same time from Tokyo HND (the midnight flight) to FRA, we meet in the morning in FRA, and then continue together to FCO. The meeting in FRA was supposed to be the start of our vacation, and we paid several hundred dollars extra to get this specific leg combination. That's why I wanna wanna keep the FRA to FCO leg with a generous connection time in FRA.

AirbusFan2B Aug 17, 2019 5:38 pm


Originally Posted by sannmann (Post 31427030)


Probably not. Looks like they cancelled that flight that day. Stick with what you were rebooked to or call and get rebooked to another flight. An hour connection at FRA is not a problem unless the first flight is delayed.

As a *G, I prefer 2+ hours at FRA to shower in LH Senator Lounge. When my FRA connection time has been just 1 hour, it’s not been enough for a full ‘refresh’ post red-eye.

Collierkr Aug 17, 2019 5:45 pm


Originally Posted by WineCountryUA (Post 31427023)
Holiday schedule reductions are common and assuming this is not a fat finger error, it will not come back. So if not reversed in a day or two, it is real.

1 HR is the MCT for UA at FRA (assuming you are talking LH connecting)

i would never book a 1 hour connection in FRA. While it can be done there is also a 1 in 3 chance it cannot. My transfers through FRA (at least 8 in last 3 years) have ranged from 45 to 2 hours.. this is the real time from leaving plane to arriving at next flight gate. Granted I have not flown through there on 24 Dec.

milepig Aug 17, 2019 5:52 pm


Originally Posted by LordDenton (Post 31427705)
Thank you so much for the advice. Clarifies a lot for me.

Actually I do want to connect in FRA. My wife is flying at the same time from Tokyo HND (the midnight flight) to FRA, we meet in the morning in FRA, and then continue together to FCO. The meeting in FRA was supposed to be the start of our vacation, and we paid several hundred dollars extra to get this specific leg combination. That's why I wanna wanna keep the FRA to FCO leg with a generous connection time in FRA.

well. The flight is cancelled and won’t return, so your options are limited.

Miles Ahead Aug 17, 2019 6:02 pm

In that case, ask to be booked on a flight to some other US-city and connect. The obvious choice is IAD, getting you in at 7:10 (UA) or 8:30 (LH). The less obvious choices are connecting to LH in BOS or MIA, or take AC. In winter, I'd not want to make an extra stop in any place that might get snow.


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