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Same route, same day, same airline -- different flight times?
This is probably a newbie question, but it's been bothering me -- UAL operates several daily nonstop routes from RAP to DEN. On the day that I'm looking to fly, the 3pm flight is booked at 79 minutes, while the 8am flight is booked at 91 minutes. That seems like a pretty sizable difference for such a short flight.
So, same airline, same route, same day, short haul domestic, but one is more than 15% shorter than the preceding flight. Are they factoring in morning traffic at DEN? Or is there something else going on? |
Traffic, routing, winds, gate availability, ...
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Lots of historical data goes into determining the flight times.
Yes, the Block to Block (gate to gate) time can vary significantly, based upon the time of day. Weather can't be predicted months in advance, but scheduled arrivals into a hub, and departures outbound, and projected gate utilization can. |
The main explanation is probably estimated ATC delays, but different aircraft types can have slightly different normal flying speeds. I've noticed slight arrival time changes when there's an aircraft change but the departure time remains the same and presumably the same gates are likely to be used. |
Originally Posted by mahasamatman
(Post 31409567)
Traffic, routing, winds, gate availability, ...
But, in the context of just overall historic data, I guess it makes sense. It just seems like such an outsized difference for such a short flight. By comparison, if you extend the same difference out to a longer transcon flight, it would be like one flight booked at 5 hours and the next at 5h45. |
Originally Posted by OhDoctor
(Post 31409625)
Certainly they're not taking winds into account six months in advance.
But, in the context of just overall historic data, I guess it makes sense. It just seems like such an outsized difference for such a short flight. By comparison, if you extend the same difference out to a longer transcon flight, it would be like one flight booked at 5 hours and the next at 5h45. |
Originally Posted by OhDoctor
(Post 31409625)
Certainly they're not taking winds into account six months in advance.
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Originally Posted by OhDoctor
(Post 31409625)
... It just seems like such an outsized difference for such a short flight. ...
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DEN can have significant differences in taxi time depending on the runway availability and winds. It's designed so that you're usually landing "into" the gate areas, so taxi time is relatively short.
But yesterday, for instance, we landed to the north using runway 34R instead of the normal 35L or 35R. This landed us about as far away from Concourse B as you can get, adding 10-15 minutes of taxi time. |
Originally Posted by DenverBrian
(Post 31409758)
DEN can have significant differences in taxi time depending on the runway availability and winds. It's designed so that you're usually landing "into" the gate areas, so taxi time is relatively short.
But, generally, it's just "we expect more congestion on the taxiway at a peak time."
Originally Posted by DenverBrian
(Post 31409758)
But yesterday, for instance, we landed to the north using runway 34R instead of the normal 35L or 35R. This landed us about as far away from Concourse B as you can get, adding 10-15 minutes of taxi time.
Incidentally, this is why you can seemingly spend forever taxiing, only to end up arriving at your destination on time. The pilots didn't (usually) go faster than the originally-filed flight plan; it's just that the airline padded their schedule because they expected the long taxi. |
Originally Posted by OhDoctor
(Post 31409625)
Certainly they're not taking winds into account six months in advance.
But, in the context of just overall historic data, I guess it makes sense. It just seems like such an outsized difference for such a short flight. By comparison, if you extend the same difference out to a longer transcon flight, it would be like one flight booked at 5 hours and the next at 5h45. There are seasonal wind patterns - they can’t know exactly how it’s going to be on a given day, but they have historical data that they can get good averages from. obviosuly, a little different than RAP to DEN, but I remember being on BOM to EWR and having pretty significant time differences scheduled. Definitely one flight was scheduled over 16 hours, and in the same direction a few months earlier it was scheduled quite a while shorter - maybe like 40-60 mins shorter? So YMMV. |
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