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Vdb then diverted and cancelled on next flight with AS. Refund due?

Vdb then diverted and cancelled on next flight with AS. Refund due?

Old Jul 18, 19, 8:27 am
  #1  
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Vdb then diverted and cancelled on next flight with AS. Refund due?

Sorry this one is kinda complicated

vdb in anchorage bc of overbooking, United puts me on AS to ord connecting to ua back to Jax. AS flight is diverted to msp and then promptly cancelled due to crew time out. Ua jax flight is also cancelled due to weather.

Do I need to claim a refund? And if so from who? AS was booked y and ua in j as part of the deal.

I made other arrangements to get home to Jax on a flight out of msp on delta.

Also can I still claim ORC?

sitting at escape lounge in msp for next 6hrs
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Old Jul 18, 19, 8:34 am
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Originally Posted by JAXFLY View Post
I made other arrangements to get home to Jax on a flight out of msp on delta.
It was AS's responsibility to get you to JAX. By making your own arrangements, you've likely complicated any chance of getting a refund substantially. Do you have trip interruption insurance?

Originally Posted by JAXFLY View Post
Also can I still claim ORC?
Generally, you can claim a refund or ORC, but not both.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 8:37 am
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And as far as I can tell, the original VDB isn't relevant to any other concerns here.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 8:43 am
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It was the responsibility of the operating carrier causing the cancellation to handle the reroute. That was AS. AS has interline ticketing agreements with both DL (in IRROPS) and AA and presumably would have rerouted OP. Ocne you use self-help, unless you do so with the permission of AS, you pretty much lose your claim.

Best situation here is to make certain that your AS ticket is cancelled and then seek a refund for the value of the UA ANC-JAX ticket. If you do that, there will not be any ORC. This may also take a lot of elbow grease to get done.

As others note, I would handle this through travel insurance and be done with it.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 8:56 am
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Originally Posted by fumje View Post
And as far as I can tell, the original VDB isn't relevant to any other concerns here.
Agreed; that ticket has been exchanged.

Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Best situation here is to make certain that your AS ticket is cancelled and then seek a refund for the value of the UA ANC-JAX ticket. If you do that, there will not be any ORC. This may also take a lot of elbow grease to get done.
A lot of elbow grease. If AS marked the ticket as unused, UA could potentially pull it back and refund it, but I don't know if AS would actually do that. It should be possible to get a partial refund for the unused UA segment in any case, once UA understands that you misconnected due to IRROPS.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 11:10 am
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Originally Posted by JAXFLY View Post
Sorry this one is kinda complicated

vdb in anchorage bc of overbooking, United puts me on AS to ord connecting to ua back to Jax. AS flight is diverted to msp and then promptly cancelled due to crew time out. Ua jax flight is also cancelled due to weather.

Do I need to claim a refund? And if so from who? AS was booked y and ua in j as part of the deal.

I made other arrangements to get home to Jax on a flight out of msp on delta.

Also can I still claim ORC?

sitting at escape lounge in msp for next 6hrs
As others have noted, you made a complex situation more complex. UA sent your ticket over to AS. The VDB is over at that point, you now have the VDB comp you got + a ticket on AS/UA. UA does not have control over the ticket, until you get to them at ORD, and to the extent that you are late, it is AS's job to get you to JAX, NOT UA's. That UA's flight is also CXed is irrelevent, you were not going to make that flight. Since you are in the AS portion of the trip, AS will either need to (a) cancel it, allowing a rebate, or (b) make alternative arrangements to get you to JAX, since it is THEIR issue, not UA's that interrupted the trip.

The way these things should be done - and I would try now, not later - is to tell the IRROPS carrier that "your recommendation is NOT reasonable, so I want a refund, and I'll find alternative arrangements which I will pay for myself" Absent this, you have abandoned a trip in the middle. UA will not refund to you (they only are required to reaccomindate you, but from ORD, not MSP), it is AS's job, and absent some discussion with AS where they cancel the reservation, getting the $$$ back will be possible, but will require some work.

The good thing going for you, is that AS tends to be more customer friendly. My guess is you will get further with them than you would have with AA or UA in a similar situation.g
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Old Jul 18, 19, 11:37 am
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Originally Posted by JAXFLY View Post
Sorry this one is kinda complicated

vdb in anchorage bc of overbooking, United puts me on AS to ord connecting to ua back to Jax. AS flight is diverted to msp and then promptly cancelled due to crew time out. Ua jax flight is also cancelled due to weather.

Do I need to claim a refund? And if so from who? AS was booked y and ua in j as part of the deal.

I made other arrangements to get home to Jax on a flight out of msp on delta.

Also can I still claim ORC?

sitting at escape lounge in msp for next 6hrs
Why did you make other arrangements yourself instead of asking AS to sort it out for you?
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Old Jul 18, 19, 11:53 am
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
It was AS's responsibility to get you to JAX. By making your own arrangements, you've likely complicated any chance of getting a refund substantially. Do you have trip interruption insurance?
I don't think OP expects a refund of his/her OOP costs so that discussion is moot. If he does, I agree he is probably out of luck.
Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
As others have noted, you made a complex situation more complex. UA sent your ticket over to AS. The VDB is over at that point, you now have the VDB comp you got + a ticket on AS/UA. UA does not have control over the ticket, until you get to them at ORD, and to the extent that you are late, it is AS's job to get you to JAX, NOT UA's. That UA's flight is also CXed is irrelevent, you were not going to make that flight. Since you are in the AS portion of the trip, AS will either need to (a) cancel it, allowing a rebate, or (b) make alternative arrangements to get you to JAX, since it is THEIR issue, not UA's that interrupted the trip.

The way these things should be done - and I would try now, not later - is to tell the IRROPS carrier that "your recommendation is NOT reasonable, so I want a refund, and I'll find alternative arrangements which I will pay for myself" Absent this, you have abandoned a trip in the middle. UA will not refund to you (they only are required to reaccomindate you, but from ORD, not MSP), it is AS's job, and absent some discussion with AS where they cancel the reservation, getting the $$$ back will be possible, but will require some work.

The good thing going for you, is that AS tends to be more customer friendly. My guess is you will get further with them than you would have with AA or UA in a similar situation.g
While AS technically has control of the ticket, they are not going to want to refund because he was FIMed over to them. IIRC, UA pays AS pennies on the dollar (e.g. ZED prices) for IRROPs pax. So hypothetically, if he paid UA $200 for both segments, he would be owed $100 but AS would have only been paid ~$50 total by United. I'd go straight to UA and ask for the $100 back. AS is not going to lose $50 cash for doing UA a favor. Alternatively, they might cut him a voucher for $100 but that would be a customer service gesture and not a refund per se.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 12:01 pm
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
The way these things should be done - and I would try now, not later - is to tell the IRROPS carrier that "your recommendation is NOT reasonable, so I want a refund, and I'll find alternative arrangements which I will pay for myself" Absent this, you have abandoned a trip in the middle. UA will not refund to you (they only are required to reaccomindate you, but from ORD, not MSP), it is AS's job, and absent some discussion with AS where they cancel the reservation, getting the $$$ back will be possible, but will require some work.
Actually, it's not UAs job to do anything. The diversion falls on AS (whether the fault is actually theirs, or not (i.e., weather)), so they are required to fix it. Don't know AS well - whether they would have an automated system to handle getting the OP to JAX, especially on OAL, but given their relationship with other carriers, they should be able to do it. OP has to follow up with them to find out what they have done/will do (or maybe they've already re-booked, and OP just doesn't know it). The OP having originally booked all UA prior to the VDB, or being booked ORD-JAX (whether that flight went out or not) on UA after, isn't really relevant. Even if the ticket is still on 016 stock (which I suspect, since UA would have been the one re-booking at VDB time), AS issue means AS would fix it. UA might be able to, but even calling them they may be reluctant - for one, the status of the coupon to ORD would have to be worked out, and only AS has the ability to do anything about that, and with AS as the controlling carrier, they probably don't want to get tied up changing something that AS might be already changing (or AS already should have).

If I were the OP, I definitely would have gone to AS for help. Even now, I'd go back to AS - call then or find an agent at MSP and find out if you've been re-booked, or how they might rebook you. Then go back to DL and try and refund your re-booked flight if the Alaska re-route works, or keep it if you think it doesn't, and DL will get you home better. DL may not refund - by DOT rules, they aren't required to since its less than 7 days prior to travel, but an explanation might do the trick. There's nothing to lose as Alaska must rebook anyway. You can always try and claim something from them if it doesn't work, though I don't know how that would work exactly given the situation.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 12:10 pm
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Originally Posted by emcampbe View Post
Actually, it's not UAs job to do anything. The diversion falls on AS (whether the fault is actually theirs, or not (i.e., weather)), so they are required to fix it.
I don't disagree, nor do I think I suggested UA had anything to do with fixing the problem, that is AS's job now. Perhaps my reference to UA not having any roll until OP got to ORD and was on/going to next take their flight ORD-JAX was confusing. He is in MSP, and that is on AS, not UA, since he was rebooked on AS.

And I might just note that I feel OP's pain. He thought he had negotiated a good deal (VDB + UA in F on ORD-JAX) and it all went to crud. I personally find it frustrating flying an airline that I don't know the ropes on, but you really have to stick with the girl you took to the ball, absent a complete service failure, and then you need to document that, and hopefully get them in writing oking a rebate or refusing a reasonable accommodation. Having taken the VDB and AS routing, OP has to deal with AS.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 12:52 pm
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Still missing from OP is why he made his own arrangements on DL. It's possible that AS refused to rebook on DL, but I would certainly want to know that.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 2:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Still missing from OP is why he made his own arrangements on DL. It's possible that AS refused to rebook on DL, but I would certainly want to know that.
Ditto. Delta would have been the only direct option (if they fly it), and its possible that AS said they were flying in a new crew, would get them out - to ORD - the next day. Either way, one needs to have the airline (here AS) fail to give a reasonable accommodation before going to self-help.
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Old Jul 18, 19, 7:39 pm
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
I don't disagree, nor do I think I suggested UA had anything to do with fixing the problem, that is AS's job now. Perhaps my reference to UA not having any roll until OP got to ORD and was on/going to next take their flight ORD-JAX was confusing. He is in MSP, and that is on AS, not UA, since he was rebooked on AS.
Sorry, I didn't mean to argue. Your post suggested, though, that UA would be liable to fix the problem when (if) the pax arrived in ORD. But even that isn't the case. If the pax showed up in ORD to UA after the time of the original JAX flight, even with the cancelation, it still is AS' responsibility to handle the OP. UA could at that point choose to help, if they wanted, but would not be out of bounds to tell the OP to find an AS agent to re-accomodate. Perhaps the JAX cancelation would have made UA more prone to help, and would have been the above and beyond thing to do, but still not a requirement.
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Old Jul 19, 19, 3:05 am
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update, got home around midnight sans checked bags which got stuck in ord which were on the flight i VDB on.

AS had no one in MSP to work the flight, they immediately cancelled the flight and said that they could arrange a bus (6hrs) or wait 10hrs after the crew was rested and try again for ORD (would depart MSP around 6-7pm)

I used my amex biz platinum when i bought the ticket they signed me up for freebird for free, some kind of free flight rebooking, they were constantly texting me and being proactive and saw my delays/misconnects/cancellations before i did and would find me options and i booked them as soon as the situation looked bad. all the msp flights bound for ORD had rolling 2+hour delays already in MSP so i would've missed UA ORD-JAX flight.

Freebird rebooked me ANC-ORD-JAX before ANC-IAH-JAX ever got cancelled so i beat everyone to plane before it overbooked. when ANC-IAH leg got cancelled it filled all the other UA flights from ANC. I was the only volunteer, gate agent arranged AS to chicago 1 hr later than the UA flight and wait in chicago for 6-7hrs for a 1st class seat ORD-JAX home and threw in meal vouchers. AS flight got diverted b/c fuel/thunderstorms. freebird rebooked me on DL/UA via IAH and i called united and requested a refund of the AS/UA combo and they said they would mail me a check/cert? not 100%.

in the end i was delayed about 12-13hours getting home, got 1500 cert, some meal vouchers and refund of my original ticket that was cancelled. I fly biz class to hawaii 1-2 times a year so this cert will cover one of those trips.
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Old Jul 19, 19, 6:43 am
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Glad it all worked well in the end. It appears Freebird bailed you out of a difficult situation, especially with no AS ground crew in MSP to handle rebooking.
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