UA in no rush to respond to DL's improved Y intl service
Jul 10, 2019, 7:34 pm
#76
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Delta owns 2.5% of MU and AA holds a similar stake in CZ. Meanwhile, the main *A carrier in China is much tighter with CX than any of its alliance partners.
I don't give a rat's behind about milking FFPs any more, but I place some value in synergies, the type that AA and DL invested in. Slightly off topic, MU provides a MUCH better ride to NYC than UA. I'm hard pressed to think of a single person in my business circles that flies UA over MU on SHA-NYC unless they are forced to.
I don't give a rat's behind about milking FFPs any more, but I place some value in synergies, the type that AA and DL invested in. Slightly off topic, MU provides a MUCH better ride to NYC than UA. I'm hard pressed to think of a single person in my business circles that flies UA over MU on SHA-NYC unless they are forced to.
Last edited by moondog; Jul 11, 2019 at 9:54 am
Jul 10, 2019, 7:40 pm
#77
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Jul 10, 2019, 7:43 pm
#78
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Delta owns 2.5% of MU and AA holds a similar stake in MU. Meanwhile, the main *A carrier in China is much tighter with CX than any of its alliance partners.
I don't give a rat's behind about milking FFPs any more, but I place some value in synergies, the type that AA and DL invested in. Slightly off topic, MU provides a MUCH better ride to NYC than UA. I'm hard pressed to think of a single person in my business circles that flies UA over MU on SHA-NYC unless they are forced to.
I don't give a rat's behind about milking FFPs any more, but I place some value in synergies, the type that AA and DL invested in. Slightly off topic, MU provides a MUCH better ride to NYC than UA. I'm hard pressed to think of a single person in my business circles that flies UA over MU on SHA-NYC unless they are forced to.
Jul 10, 2019, 7:46 pm
#79
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Jul 10, 2019, 8:02 pm
#80
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Mostly schedule coordination thus far. AA and CZ at PKX should be an interesting litmus test (greenfield opportunity). 2.5% equity might seem trivial, but it seems to have been sufficient to score seats at the tables.
Jul 10, 2019, 8:37 pm
#81
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Topic Check
This thread is about if UA will adopt or be affected by DL's new economy service. DL's partners in China is a great discussion-- for the DL forum. Let's return to the food / economy service discussion.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread is about if UA will adopt or be affected by DL's new economy service. DL's partners in China is a great discussion-- for the DL forum. Let's return to the food / economy service discussion.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Jul 11, 2019, 9:03 am
#82
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I frequently have a choice of one-stop connections to get between the city pairs of interest to me, where the choice is to transit via ORD using UA or AA or to transit or originate via a DL hub. I tend to choose the DL hubs since DL provides a better experience despite how poorly I find the SkyMiles program. If I expected the UA and AA loyalty programs to be far superior to DL SkyMiles in the years and decade ahead, I would have used UA and AA somewhat more than I do, but when the US3 airline programs are increasingly poorly rewarding knock-offs of each other, then price and predictability count. And DL is the leader of the US3 airlines when it comes to quality/delivery of service in the air and operational superiority — all while UA and AA are lousy laggards. As much as I despise what DL has done to SkyMiles and enabled the other two of the US3 airlines to do to the loyalty mileage programs, I have returned to DL because at least I know DL does provide a better and more consistent flight experience. Without UA really sweetening the UA MileagePlus pot for me — and it’s doing the opposite of that — DL’s going to keep taking my business away from UA way more than it already does. I have no faith in UA being able to become what DL is anytime soon. I have even less faith in AA being able to do so anytime soon.
Jul 11, 2019, 10:02 am
#83
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I give Delta a lot of credit for innovating and out-of-the-box thinking, but I'm not certain I would be cheering for UA to adopt this service standard. If UA were to instead go for bigger mains, different salads, absolutely... but there's no question that this extends the service. Delta thinks it's a win-win, as FA interactions are tied to higher NPS, so this gets their crews in the aisle more often, interacting with passengers. It's also (reportedly) a savings of tens of millions annually, if not more.
In speaking to a FA in the DL PDX domicile who was a big part of the service trial, she claims the cabin is generally not cleared, with lights out until about 2.5 hours in, which is a long Y service, any way you slice it, and (not that this matters for pax) but flight attendants are WORKING, because so much of the service is bulk-provisioned, hand-run now. Despite the PR fluff, flight attendants are not thrilled about it, especially some of the senior FAs... but rumor is, that actually has something to do with it!
Caterers charge airlines differently for bulk-provisioned items versus tray setups. Eliminating the tray setups (where airlines are charged per-item on the tray) is a major cost savings. Now, the bulk trays (more like plates, really) are loaded in stacks, along with the placemat/utensil roll, while cold appetizers are loaded in the cart and hot mains in oven carriers. Delta will simply ship these items to outstations where caterers will deliver them to the flights, wrapped in plastic and loaded in carts. FAs will hand pax the plate with appetizer and entree, rather than a tray setup provisioned with cold items (app, bread, utensil roll, dessert, S+P, etc.) and loaded in the carts.
It makes for a cool study in airline economics, logistics and innovation.
In speaking to a FA in the DL PDX domicile who was a big part of the service trial, she claims the cabin is generally not cleared, with lights out until about 2.5 hours in, which is a long Y service, any way you slice it, and (not that this matters for pax) but flight attendants are WORKING, because so much of the service is bulk-provisioned, hand-run now. Despite the PR fluff, flight attendants are not thrilled about it, especially some of the senior FAs... but rumor is, that actually has something to do with it!
Caterers charge airlines differently for bulk-provisioned items versus tray setups. Eliminating the tray setups (where airlines are charged per-item on the tray) is a major cost savings. Now, the bulk trays (more like plates, really) are loaded in stacks, along with the placemat/utensil roll, while cold appetizers are loaded in the cart and hot mains in oven carriers. Delta will simply ship these items to outstations where caterers will deliver them to the flights, wrapped in plastic and loaded in carts. FAs will hand pax the plate with appetizer and entree, rather than a tray setup provisioned with cold items (app, bread, utensil roll, dessert, S+P, etc.) and loaded in the carts.
It makes for a cool study in airline economics, logistics and innovation.
https://livefromalounge.boardingarea...my-class-seat/
Now if someone can figure out how to improve the first class food this way - had a DL F dinner flight this week with at best 4 ounces of a main course.
Jul 11, 2019, 10:37 am
#84
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To me this thread shows the impossibility of uniformly pleasing everybody. The factors that determine airline choice are so complex. Let me delineate:
For these reasons, it is not clear that UA should try to chase DL on its new offering of factor 4. Especially if it detracts focus from improving its status on factors 1, 2 and 3.
- Price (and to me this includes the value of ancillary services such as number of free bags and value of FFP credits accrued).
- Convenience: does the airline offer a nonstop to my destination, does it fly there frequently, reliably and at desirable times, etc.
- Hard product comfort (seat, etc)
- Soft product quality (food, beverages on plane and in lounges)
- Service (enjoy the interactions with employees, or try to minimize them)
For these reasons, it is not clear that UA should try to chase DL on its new offering of factor 4. Especially if it detracts focus from improving its status on factors 1, 2 and 3.
Jul 11, 2019, 12:44 pm
#85
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The only thing that matters to me is seat pitch and width
Free E+ is great for the pitch, I don't think we are going to see 18.5" wide long haul Y seats on new UA aircraft again so its a wash for me, I usually eat before and bring snacks anyways if I am in E+ on a TPAC route so I won't be switching to Delta
Free E+ is great for the pitch, I don't think we are going to see 18.5" wide long haul Y seats on new UA aircraft again so its a wash for me, I usually eat before and bring snacks anyways if I am in E+ on a TPAC route so I won't be switching to Delta
Jul 11, 2019, 7:00 pm
#86
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Man, just a side bowl of olives? Really? I cannot believe that United has become so cheap. Now I am grateful that at least I got a 'side salad' (if you can still call it that) on my HKG-SFO flight two months ago. Maybe I should move my business to CX/DL (depending on where I fly) if I continue to get starved on TPAC flights.
Olives aside, I agree with you on the food quality, it's really not that bad. I just want more of it.
Jul 11, 2019, 7:51 pm
#87
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UA (at least in Y) certainly isn’t the best airplane food, but it’s fine. I’ve had better, for sure (SQ, TK, CX - at least regional but was a few years ago last time and I hear it’s declined, and TG to a lesser extent). It’s about the same as many others, like LH, IME. I’ve also had worse - AC and CI, for example, and I know many will likely disagree, but I don’t like the food on NH. I’m talking about Y, since that’s what I fly.
Jul 11, 2019, 9:04 pm
#88
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This. Please give us more food, UA! I do not care that much about the food quality, but I cannot stand being starved on TPAC flights. If it continues to be the case, I am sure I can find an airline that can keep me stuffed.
Jul 11, 2019, 11:05 pm
#89
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SFO
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NW tried a similar meal service concept 25+ years ago, as this 1994 LA Times piece helped me recall.
“At Northwest Airlines, main cabin "A La Carte" food service was introduced last year, allowing passengers to select foods buffet-style from a seat-side serving cart and, thus, to better control the amount they eat.”
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...942-story.html
I experienced it a couple of times; seemed much ado about nothing then. The PR spin strikes me as the most innovative aspect of the recent DL announcement. Then again maybe I’m just too old and cynical.
“At Northwest Airlines, main cabin "A La Carte" food service was introduced last year, allowing passengers to select foods buffet-style from a seat-side serving cart and, thus, to better control the amount they eat.”
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...942-story.html
I experienced it a couple of times; seemed much ado about nothing then. The PR spin strikes me as the most innovative aspect of the recent DL announcement. Then again maybe I’m just too old and cynical.
Jul 12, 2019, 12:08 am
#90
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