UA in no rush to respond to DL's improved Y intl service
#31
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.8MM
Posts: 6,273
Kirby is out to get the largest bonus he can possibly acquire....and it will be huge....approved by the board & welcomed by the shareholders.
Mission accomplished!
(..the ones who suffer are us who fly 200'000+ miles/year, sadly...)
#32
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I am a Diamond on DL, Gold on UA. I live in the DTW area and am DL hub-captive. That said, I get a lot of experience with both hard products (I like the added capacity in E+ on UA). On the soft product front, UA for the most part just screams cheapness to me. Materially, many posters are correct, there isn't a lot of difference between the two products. However, it is just a general attitude at Delta that makes me feel more welcomed.
Does a pack of Cheezits and a granola bar move the needle for coach passengers? I don't know. The attitude is definitely different as flight attendants actively dole out the snacks on Delta compared to a UA flight yesterday where the passenger next to me was given a very abrupt no with a request for a Stroopwaffle AND pretzels. "You can just pick one". There are bad eggs on both airlines. United flight attendants (anecdotal experience) seem much less proactive towards the customer.
I think the mid-con and east coast to Hawaii is another example. Delta provides catering on those flights for economy. United started the laughable "test" of that on selected flights only to have it disappear. The turkey wrap probably costs Delta $2. If I know I won't be in a 10x 777 AND I get food, the decision is a no-brainer
IRROPS - In my experience (I deal with the ORD, EWR, and IAD hubs), United is WAY-inferior to Delta. Clearly, my respective status probably has something to do with my experience. In my anecdotal experience, Delta's operations seem infinitely more reliable than UA.
Transatlantic, I get off a UA flight hungry. On Delta it is never the case.
Does a pack of Cheezits and a granola bar move the needle for coach passengers? I don't know. The attitude is definitely different as flight attendants actively dole out the snacks on Delta compared to a UA flight yesterday where the passenger next to me was given a very abrupt no with a request for a Stroopwaffle AND pretzels. "You can just pick one". There are bad eggs on both airlines. United flight attendants (anecdotal experience) seem much less proactive towards the customer.
I think the mid-con and east coast to Hawaii is another example. Delta provides catering on those flights for economy. United started the laughable "test" of that on selected flights only to have it disappear. The turkey wrap probably costs Delta $2. If I know I won't be in a 10x 777 AND I get food, the decision is a no-brainer
IRROPS - In my experience (I deal with the ORD, EWR, and IAD hubs), United is WAY-inferior to Delta. Clearly, my respective status probably has something to do with my experience. In my anecdotal experience, Delta's operations seem infinitely more reliable than UA.
Transatlantic, I get off a UA flight hungry. On Delta it is never the case.
Last edited by bubbashow; Jul 9, 2019 at 8:07 am
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,323
Cynics saying Delta is foolish for giving the Y trade anything but a grim experience at a low price sound like the Big Three US automakers in the '70s when Toyota, Datsun, and the OPEC crisis all came to town. The idea of competing on quality at the low end of the market was seen as ridiculous. You know the rest.
Honda sold a lot of first-gen Accords because of an ingenious little coin holder on the dash. Standard equipment, less than a dollar to install, stole customers from GM for life.
In the airline business, once choice and quality have hit rock bottom, you can place Kirby's bet -- that there is no material amenity or experience design tweak customers will respond to -- or Delta's bet, e.g. that a few small differentiators can move loyalty, demand, and repeat business.
A Delta coach passenger may deplane remembering only that the crew produced hot towels, which probably cost < 3 cents per seat. Better than getting off a United flight remembering only that it took three hours for the first and only drink service and no crew member spoke a word beyond "Drink?"
Honda sold a lot of first-gen Accords because of an ingenious little coin holder on the dash. Standard equipment, less than a dollar to install, stole customers from GM for life.
In the airline business, once choice and quality have hit rock bottom, you can place Kirby's bet -- that there is no material amenity or experience design tweak customers will respond to -- or Delta's bet, e.g. that a few small differentiators can move loyalty, demand, and repeat business.
A Delta coach passenger may deplane remembering only that the crew produced hot towels, which probably cost < 3 cents per seat. Better than getting off a United flight remembering only that it took three hours for the first and only drink service and no crew member spoke a word beyond "Drink?"
#34
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,567
As this is the United forum, lets focus on UA and how the DL move of "improved economy service" might impact UA. Other aspects of DL are better discussed in the DL forum.
WuneCountryUA
UA coModerator
WuneCountryUA
UA coModerator
#35
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,291
Substantially more than 50 cents savings. Many of those fares have been just silly cheap, and the ULCCs have also established they can't keep their aircraft flying using that model.
#36
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,424
I have some relatives in inflight at Delta and have been paying attention to this trial dining concept for a while since it started on PDXNRT. Believe it or not, the new Delta Y service is actually a cost saving measure, as it eliminates tray setups loaded in carts, cuts one pass of the bar cart, is actually less food, and increases FA workload significantly. It also results in a longer, more drawn-out main service... expect tweaks on the East Coast EU redeye flights.
Delta scores points for innovating and packaging this as a benefit to customers, and that’s meaningful. But it’s not everything that meets the eye.
Delta scores points for innovating and packaging this as a benefit to customers, and that’s meaningful. But it’s not everything that meets the eye.
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,323
I have some relatives in inflight at Delta and have been paying attention to this trial dining concept for a while since it started on PDXNRT. Believe it or not, the new Delta Y service is actually a cost saving measure, as it eliminates tray setups loaded in carts, cuts one pass of the bar cart, is actually less food, and increases FA workload significantly. It also results in a longer, more drawn-out main service... expect tweaks on the East Coast EU redeye flights.
#38
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX - AUS
Programs: AA Platinum, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott
Posts: 1,622
I remember United tried something similar several years ago. The feedback was it increased meal service times, and was actually a cost cutting initiative spun as an enhancement.
#39
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: UA 1K MM, HHonors Diamond,PC, Marriott Rewards Gold
Posts: 1,111
It’s all about Y
Y fly UA TPAC when you can avoid nasty 10 across seating by flying DL? The only reason I’m flying UA is because of PP option that’s free to me so far.
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: HH Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 10,451
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/...hoo&yptr=yahoo
I like UA’s response (paraphrasing) “We’re always looking to enhance customer experience, but we’re not actually doing anything”.
If more people in the back of the bus opt for Delta, UA’s margins are going to disappear.
I like UA’s response (paraphrasing) “We’re always looking to enhance customer experience, but we’re not actually doing anything”.
If more people in the back of the bus opt for Delta, UA’s margins are going to disappear.
#41
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,157
Short-haul is headed that way too. While UA was placing (now modified) orders for fire sale 73Gs, DL made a big investment in the C Series/A220.
#42
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NYC, FLL
Programs: UA PP 1MM, Marriott Bonvoy LTTE, BA Bronze
Posts: 6,260
Mmmm a sugar rush from sugary peach juice, topped with crappy sparkling wine + a fatty chocolate to mess with my stomach upon arrival into Europe. No thanks, DL.
Won't influence Y passengers. UA hasn't adopted free drinks for E+ like DL did...
Won't influence Y passengers. UA hasn't adopted free drinks for E+ like DL did...
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
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Posts: 19,712
It is common in the brand-loyalty world for superfans of an inferior proposition to devalue improvements available from the competition.
That competing restaurant serves better food for less? Yeah, well, I don't go to restaurants for the food. I go for the tablecloths and cutlery.
That competing make of car runs forever without breakdowns? Yeah, well, if you like that kind of thing. Me, I like my bimonthly service bay visits.
Some other airline offers more value? Yeah, well, none of that stuff matters to me.
#45
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PEK, AUS, WAS, HKG
Programs: CX Gold
Posts: 1,117
In contrast, for the few times I flew DL, I never feel hungry at all! You can usually get a salad, an appetizer, a substantial main dish, and a dessert in Economy, which is sufficient to keep me stuffed until the mid-flight snack service.
I have no problem with a small seat, limited legroom, etc, but I really cannot tolerate being hungry. This difference has started to make me think twice about booking UA TPAC flights.