PN vs PZ -- Why such a difference?
Jul 7, 2019, 7:03 pm
#106
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: BA Bronze, United 1K, HH Gold, SPG Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 3,477
When is your flight? I have the same fares showing for one of my flights later this week out of PVG with Polaris booked 32/48.
Jul 7, 2019, 7:37 pm
#107
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Mileage Plus Global Services 2MM
Posts: 1,200
What would great to see (and we will likely never see it) would be a separate bucket for 1K to clear UG's into. Having EVERY passenger except GS clear into the PZ bucket is insane. There is no differentiation between 1K through Silver. Based on that, it makes perfect sense that PZ is rarely available. If UA really wants to recognize 1K's, give them a bucket that actually has some ability to use a GPU some time other than Wednesday at 6 a.m. in the dead of winter to Alaska 
Jul 7, 2019, 9:22 pm
#108
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,438
What would great to see (and we will likely never see it) would be a separate bucket for 1K to clear UG's into. Having EVERY passenger except GS clear into the PZ bucket is insane. There is no differentiation between 1K through Silver. Based on that, it makes perfect sense that PZ is rarely available. If UA really wants to recognize 1K's, give them a bucket that actually has some ability to use a GPU some time other than Wednesday at 6 a.m. in the dead of winter to Alaska
Jul 7, 2019, 9:34 pm
#109
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Mileage Plus Global Services 2MM
Posts: 1,200
It's all just a guess on our part since we don't have visibility behind the curtain. However, other than for GS, every mileage upgrade + co-pay clears into PZ. That's not an insignificant volume. The point is, UA keeps that bucket exceedingly tight so those UG's don't clear early and they can monetize the cabin.
Jul 7, 2019, 10:00 pm
#110
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
It's all just a guess on our part since we don't have visibility behind the curtain. However, other than for GS, every mileage upgrade + co-pay clears into PZ. That's not an insignificant volume. The point is, UA keeps that bucket exceedingly tight so those UG's don't clear early and they can monetize the cabin.
As a lowly Gold, I would love it if they would open up lots of PZ space. I could confirm miles + copay upgrades ahead of higher level elites by buying before them. But 1Ks would see fewer upgrades, not more.
Considering the large gap in spend requirement between lower level elites and 1k, I think they really do deserve their own bucket to clear into.
Jul 7, 2019, 10:20 pm
#111
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,158
But if I want to go from Washington metro area to Germany in the fall, I see loads of coach tickets priced in the low 500s. After you account for award fees, you’re only getting ~0.8 cpm — already lower than the 1 cpm threshold at which nobody in their right mind would choose to earn miles over cash.
Jul 7, 2019, 10:34 pm
#112
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: SFO
Programs: United 1MM GS, Marriott Platinum Elite, Hilton Diamond, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 283
But if I want to go from Washington metro area to Germany in the fall, I see loads of coach tickets priced in the low 500s. After you account for award fees, you’re only getting ~0.8 cpm — already lower than the 1 cpm threshold at which nobody in their right mind would choose to earn miles over cash.
Jul 7, 2019, 11:47 pm
#113
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: UA LT GS | UA LT Club | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,250
What would great to see (and we will likely never see it) would be a separate bucket for 1K to clear UG's into. Having EVERY passenger except GS clear into the PZ bucket is insane. There is no differentiation between 1K through Silver. Based on that, it makes perfect sense that PZ is rarely available. If UA really wants to recognize 1K's, give them a bucket that actually has some ability to use a GPU some time other than Wednesday at 6 a.m. in the dead of winter to Alaska
Jul 8, 2019, 12:12 am
#114
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,581
But if I want to go from Washington metro area to Germany in the fall, I see loads of coach tickets priced in the low 500s. After you account for award fees, you’re only getting ~0.8 cpm — already lower than the 1 cpm threshold at which nobody in their right mind would choose to earn miles over cash.
Jul 8, 2019, 4:46 am
#115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,400
Besides, given the choice, I suspect UA would rather have your business than mine. Mileage + co-pay awards mean you’re spending much more money on your flight than I likely am on my W or R fare — plus, you’re depleting your MileagePlus balance, which helps their balance sheet as well. If they’re really lucky, they may be able to sell you the very miles you’re using to upgrade your flight.
Jul 8, 2019, 8:40 am
#116
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silicon wasteland
Programs: UA 1KMM
Posts: 1,381
That’s the problem with the airline industry, though. You simply can’t afford to run your business like this. UA absolutely needs seat fillers. If you work out their annual profit and compare it to the number of flights that they run, it’s, what, maybe $1000 per flight? Probably less. As much as some people on this board like to complain about “Kettles,” UA can’t survive catering only to high-level elites. They simply couldn’t make money with planes that were only 10% full. Low volume, low yield passengers are individually unprofitable, but collectively they can make the difference between a profit and a loss.
I still stand behind UA giving the middle finger to the low volume and low yield market simply because there are so many of them chasing seats based only on price, they become fungible. There is no incentive to treat them well... and the state of the economy cabin, check-in experience, off-shore call centers, bag fees, existence of BE fares, I think all points to a desire to see how low the "bare minimum" really is before they no longer fill their seats.
Jul 8, 2019, 11:12 am
#117
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,451
While I'd probably agree with you and others upthread that having all non-GS clear into the same bucket is objectively insane, relatively speaking it's not that insane. AA uses the one bucket (C) for *all* instrument-supported upgrades, including those by its CK members (equivalent to GS).
Jul 8, 2019, 11:50 am
#118
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: BART Platinum, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 1,158
If you are an elite, I agree. Do you think the average kettle pays any attention to the details we discuss here? I don't. And if they do care, they applied for a credit card that gave them 50000 free miles for merely using it on things they'd normally buy, right? So maybe the extra 20000 miles they need for the trip are not such a good deal, but are they going to care? Not immediately, IMHO. Maybe once they consider the long term they will see how UA is taking advantage of them, but I doubt it.
Jul 8, 2019, 12:10 pm
#119
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP, WN A+, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Amb, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,126
I had a suspicion this is what was happening on a flight I was watching for weeks. I don't like this as I want to confirm PZ at booking rather than hope I magically clear within 24 hours while I can still change/cancel the ticket. I have great success using GPUs because I only use them when I can confirm at booking (getting creative with routing and +/- 1 day of desired travel). The only way this is helpful is if UA is slightly more generous with the number of upgrade space they make available.
Jul 8, 2019, 5:24 pm
#120
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
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I don't take issue with the pecking order. Rather I take issue with providing a benefit that cannot easily be used by many of us, particularly at hubs like SFO.
For example I maybe take 1 transcon a year with Mrs. B. Or one trip to Hawaii from the West Coast. I would like to upgrade that flight, preferably both directions. There are dozens of flights from which to choose and I tend to buy the tickets months in advance of travel. Giving me RPUs and GPUs that I cannot use on these flights (0% clearance over past several years) makes them almost worthless to me and in fact is worse than the old system where (as 2P) I could buy stickers or coupons to upgrade my flights. And did so with ease. In fact I would gladly pay $200 to do so but that option isn't offered when I buy my tickets - it's either $400RT for discount E+ or $1600RT for F, Even non-elites have a better shot at TOD cash upgrades than high level elites with RPU/GPU.
So yes I get that UA wants to sell the seats. And if UA can't sell the seats then it wants to give them free to GS before anyone else. But if the result is that GPUs/RPUs can't be used by the rest of us except by rolling the dice then why award them at all? Giving something that is useless does not engender loyalty and is worse than giving nothing.
For example I maybe take 1 transcon a year with Mrs. B. Or one trip to Hawaii from the West Coast. I would like to upgrade that flight, preferably both directions. There are dozens of flights from which to choose and I tend to buy the tickets months in advance of travel. Giving me RPUs and GPUs that I cannot use on these flights (0% clearance over past several years) makes them almost worthless to me and in fact is worse than the old system where (as 2P) I could buy stickers or coupons to upgrade my flights. And did so with ease. In fact I would gladly pay $200 to do so but that option isn't offered when I buy my tickets - it's either $400RT for discount E+ or $1600RT for F, Even non-elites have a better shot at TOD cash upgrades than high level elites with RPU/GPU.
So yes I get that UA wants to sell the seats. And if UA can't sell the seats then it wants to give them free to GS before anyone else. But if the result is that GPUs/RPUs can't be used by the rest of us except by rolling the dice then why award them at all? Giving something that is useless does not engender loyalty and is worse than giving nothing.