gldwebs

I have some firsthand knowledge of what needs to go into creating the technical solution - it is far more complex than you think because of all the different systems it needs to touch.

jsloan

gldwebs

Yeah, with all their other technical challenges (that I cannot go into), it is far from a priority. I think you will sooner see a flying pig on their home page than see something like this implemented.

ContinentalFan

bocastephen

This "<insert name of airline> is a business" argument has been brought out so many times over the years. Yes, the airline is a business, however United has an obligation to make good on the features and amenities that it promises customers - there is no value in, and actually an argument could be made for fraud, in stating "you will receive an upgrade certificate valid for Polaris Business worldwide from any W or higher fare" then taking deliberate steps to make sure the certificate can almost never be redeemed.

Delta is an example of an airline that has deliberately restricted global upgrades, made its frequent flyer program nearly unusable for any desirable redemption, and leads an almost useless global alliance, yet offers and communicates the value proposition of a product that is remarkably better than United - and has the ability to clearly articulate its value proposition and unique selling features, while continually improving the product. For example, Delta is introducing hot towel service and upgraded dining in international coach.

The problem with United is a very limited value proposition (hey, we're in Star Alliance and fly to lots of places - beyond that, really nothing), has no current unique selling features (Polaris is NOT unique, nor is it even great anymore), and does absolutely nothing to articulate any sort of value or benefit to customers - but just continually cuts service and product under the false narrative of "normalizing to the industry", which in Kirby's eyes means cutting or restricting along with other airlines, but refusing to follow other airlines in upgraded services or products.

So, yes, United is a business - but it's a very poorly run business with the wrong leadership and just happens to be making money off the coattails of a strong economy, but as the economy weakens and global travel demand softens, it is at greater risk vs carriers who still offer a desirable product at a fair price. I am not suggesting that United give away all of its seats for mileage redemptions and upgrades, but there should be more transparency and a clearer path to customer expectations around this benefit.

gldwebs

I think the US market has shown that it doesn't matter. All the major legacy carriers are doing about the same thing. Leave one because you dont like the benefits and go to the other until you realize its no different. For most business travelers (which is where the money is at) its around best schedule for the right price. I wouldnt be surprised if one day almost all the benefits of FFP are completely gone. Already, most domestic business flights go out with near full PAID F since the prices dropped for F vs Y and internationally, they frequently go out full. Revenue management technology is so sophisticated today that there is little guess work. All that you will be left with is a program for spending the miles given to you by your credit card, since those are SO profitable.

n8-the-gr8

One other aspect of this not addressed here is how much inventory of PZ is released and used in reality vs. PN space. Yes, I get that it's frustrating to see PN7 PZ0, but I also wonder how much of the challenge in using GPU's is related to the fact that with so many 1K's and GPU's as the main means of upgrading, the space just goes very quickly.

As an example, I monitored PZ space very closely last year on LAX - SYD and while PN space sat unused for weeks, the day PZ space opened (at PZ4), I immediately confirmed into 2 of those spaces and within ~6 hours the rest was gone. The GS pool is much smaller and GS has many more means to get into business class with GS benefits so there's a visibility issue in all of this - if PN space sits available much longer, it will always be very visible that there's availability, and with so many 1K's, a lot of the PZ space that comes available gets taken very quickly and thus you will see PZ0 the majority of the time.

Just thinking the comparison of total PZ vs. PN space released and used on aggregate each year would be slightly different from anecdotal searches, and given GS numbers vs. 1K, even if PZ space doubled, a majority of folks would still be unhappy.

nomad420

fumje

Well I'm waiting for PZ>PN, but so far n luck.

saccoNY

bocastephen

I would say to the contrary - there is a vast difference between Spirit/Frontier and Delta, and big difference between Southwest and United. However, only Delta is able to establish a reputation for a premium product that does get a price premium, and Southwest continues to maintain its own reputation for no-frills value with great service, often at a higher price than Spirit/Allegiant or Frontier. At this point, only United and American are struggling with their own identity, lacking a clear product vision, any communication of their value propositions or what makes their products desirable - and what do they have in common? They are both led by someone who is a protege of arguably the worst (from a customer/employee perspective) airline leader in history, next to Frank Lorenzo, Ben Baldanza.

Delta has made it clear that product quality matters....features matter....service matters...and people WILL pay a reasonable premium for a better experience.

Airlines are doing well today because the economy is strong and fuel prices are under control - that can, and will change in the future - and when it does, airlines who don't have a plan to capture and maintain business from a shrinking customer base will discover they are in a very bad situation. I support foreign ownership of a US operating airline, provided the foreign owner is from a country that does not have economic or political conflict with the USA and crews are US citizens or residents, as it would inject capital into the industry and create competition for US carriers, forcing them to either innovate or be swept away.

saccoNY

fumje

Or due to the changing of the hour. Upgrade space, like any discount bucket, changes more often because of some forecasting calculation than because of load conditions.

jsloan

mr8

How are non-elites going from PP to C?
Would actually be nice if A/O/R cleared into PN with a GPU.