View Poll Results: No longer transfer Chase UR→UA @ 1:1 ratio (or at all)? What to do? What to do?
[NO] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I still don't want any UA/UR Chase product
7.94%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I keep my UA card and [DO NOT] carry UR card.
9.35%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [I KEEP] my UA card(s) and [ADD] UR Chase card(s).
3.74%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [I CLOSE] Chase UA card and [DO NOT WANT] a UR Chase card.
1.87%
[NO] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I dont carry a UA card and I [KEEP] my UR card
26.17%
[NO] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → I [ADD] a UA card and I [CLOSE] my UR card.
0
0%
[✓] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE], I keep [BOTH] my UA and UR Chase cards.
24.77%
[✓] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → I [CLOSE] my UA card(s) and [KEEP] my UR card(s).
22.90%
Voters: 214. You may not vote on this poll
United pushes JPM on Sapphire Reserve
Jul 8, 2019, 8:24 pm
#316
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
Whether a customer hoards all the miles all these years or spent down most of those millions of miles much like kb1992 and I, the current reality is still what it is: collecting UA miles is no longer worth what it used to be, all because of UA’s own-goal with UA’s unilateral devaluation of UA miles.
AA miles and DL miles have, for years now, been actually worse value in my experience than UA miles. While AA and DL may have had different strengths when they were negotiating for their respective current contracts with their bank-card issuing partners, I can only foresee the other US airlines eventually facing the same reality as UA in facing growing competition from banks’ own loyalty programs unless and until the bank card use fees for merchants plummet in the US. But the plummeting card-use-related costs from growing competition in the payment services business will blow away not only the competition from banks’ loyalty programs, it will also blow away the “need” for complaints such as UA’s to Chase about airline affinity bank cards’ performance.
AA miles and DL miles have, for years now, been actually worse value in my experience than UA miles. While AA and DL may have had different strengths when they were negotiating for their respective current contracts with their bank-card issuing partners, I can only foresee the other US airlines eventually facing the same reality as UA in facing growing competition from banks’ own loyalty programs unless and until the bank card use fees for merchants plummet in the US. But the plummeting card-use-related costs from growing competition in the payment services business will blow away not only the competition from banks’ loyalty programs, it will also blow away the “need” for complaints such as UA’s to Chase about airline affinity bank cards’ performance.
Jul 8, 2019, 10:14 pm
#317
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LAX
Programs: UA MM | BA Silver
Posts: 7,192
Sigh, ok. In 2008 I took my mom on an incredible first class trip using UA miles to Europe and several destinations in Asia. We flew LH/SQ/UA. I was sure that trip would be my swan song and the game would be over shortly after. It wasn’t.
Since then things have changed a lot, and my response has been to diversify my points earning and redemption. I’ve certainly focused more on accumulating transferable currencies, but I also still earn miles with the airlines. I didn’t stay static.
I use points for upgrades (DL SM on VS PE -> VS UC), to reduce the cost of tickets (UR on expensive holiday flights), full on business and first class awards (AMEX MR via Aeroplan LH F, AS MP for EK F and AA J, and DL SM for DL low J transatlantic award ) and so on so forth.
I get dynamic pricing will have an impact. I also get that it could be perceived as more difficult as things change. Personally, I’m going to wait and see. Points and miles are revenue generators for banks and airlines. At the end of the day they will have to figure out how to keep consumer interest in the product. We see this playing out at UA right now.
Things change, but I can’t get on the sky is falling bandwagon because according to FT it’s been falling since the day I signed up in 2003. I’d rather have a hoard of miles across accounts than zero balances because I’m upset or can’t find a certain redemption.
Now, this is my perspective and everyone on this board is looking at this issue through a different lens, but I’m happy enough with all the opportunities the mile game has, and continues to offer. Even with the ever constant evolving landscape.
Since then things have changed a lot, and my response has been to diversify my points earning and redemption. I’ve certainly focused more on accumulating transferable currencies, but I also still earn miles with the airlines. I didn’t stay static.
I use points for upgrades (DL SM on VS PE -> VS UC), to reduce the cost of tickets (UR on expensive holiday flights), full on business and first class awards (AMEX MR via Aeroplan LH F, AS MP for EK F and AA J, and DL SM for DL low J transatlantic award ) and so on so forth.
I get dynamic pricing will have an impact. I also get that it could be perceived as more difficult as things change. Personally, I’m going to wait and see. Points and miles are revenue generators for banks and airlines. At the end of the day they will have to figure out how to keep consumer interest in the product. We see this playing out at UA right now.
Things change, but I can’t get on the sky is falling bandwagon because according to FT it’s been falling since the day I signed up in 2003. I’d rather have a hoard of miles across accounts than zero balances because I’m upset or can’t find a certain redemption.
Now, this is my perspective and everyone on this board is looking at this issue through a different lens, but I’m happy enough with all the opportunities the mile game has, and continues to offer. Even with the ever constant evolving landscape.
Jul 8, 2019, 11:08 pm
#318
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,565
In my case, I've already spent over half the miles I earned over the last 20 years on front cabin upgrades. I'm retiring soon, and was saving the remainder for one last long haul vacation in F. Now, I'm going to burn them as fast as I can before I retire.
Jul 9, 2019, 12:24 am
#319
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,386
This isn’t a question about being upset. It’s a question of whether or not you’re going to be able to get outsized value from frequent flyer miles — in this case, MileagePlus miles — as compared to any other form of rebate. Under a fixed earning chart, at least you had the ability to make an informed decision about that: “If I can find LH F, it’s X miles for the flight I want, versus $Y if I buy it” Without a chart, the best you can do is to get an idea of the current “exchange rate” and hope it doesn’t change too quickly.
It is increasingly fiscally irrational to maintain large balances in frequent flyer programs, and doubly so to channel credit card spending into frequent flyer miles. (With miles earned from flying, it’s not like UA would write you a check if you prefer.
Jul 9, 2019, 3:07 am
#320
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
UA management’s current-year program for a substantial increase in the cost of using UA miles for UA flights in particular are going to drive home that message even more. UA’s funny money is worth less and less, and customers don’t care to consume UA’s funny stuff like they used to do.
Jul 9, 2019, 4:13 am
#321
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
Not really.
For past 15 years, I earned 4 million miles via MP Signature Visa, and 2 million miles via flying.
My family travel worldwide, and I always redeem for international F/J. Never in coach.
I have redeemed more than 3 million miles on UA/NH/OZ/LH/LX/SG/CA/TG, roughly 20 round-trip tickets abroad at saver level.
I still have more than 2 million UA miles. Now I am worried about this dynamic pricing.
With 300K one-way J award coming, my 2 million miles can only buy 4 round-trip tickets in J.
This means, one trip to Asia for my family would wipe out my account balance.
For past 15 years, I earned 4 million miles via MP Signature Visa, and 2 million miles via flying.
My family travel worldwide, and I always redeem for international F/J. Never in coach.
I have redeemed more than 3 million miles on UA/NH/OZ/LH/LX/SG/CA/TG, roughly 20 round-trip tickets abroad at saver level.
I still have more than 2 million UA miles. Now I am worried about this dynamic pricing.
With 300K one-way J award coming, my 2 million miles can only buy 4 round-trip tickets in J.
This means, one trip to Asia for my family would wipe out my account balance.
Jul 9, 2019, 5:26 am
#322
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,153
Not really.
For past 15 years, I earned 4 million miles via MP Signature Visa, and 2 million miles via flying.
My family travel worldwide, and I always redeem for international F/J. Never in coach.
I have redeemed more than 3 million miles on UA/NH/OZ/LH/LX/SG/CA/TG, roughly 20 round-trip tickets abroad at saver level.
I still have more than 2 million UA miles. Now I am worried about this dynamic pricing.
With 300K one-way J award coming, my 2 million miles can only buy 4 round-trip tickets in J.
This means, one trip to Asia for my family would wipe out my account balance.
For past 15 years, I earned 4 million miles via MP Signature Visa, and 2 million miles via flying.
My family travel worldwide, and I always redeem for international F/J. Never in coach.
I have redeemed more than 3 million miles on UA/NH/OZ/LH/LX/SG/CA/TG, roughly 20 round-trip tickets abroad at saver level.
I still have more than 2 million UA miles. Now I am worried about this dynamic pricing.
With 300K one-way J award coming, my 2 million miles can only buy 4 round-trip tickets in J.
This means, one trip to Asia for my family would wipe out my account balance.
Going a little off topic I know, but popular consensus here seems to be that partner rewards will also go dynamic. However, is there any foundation to that speculation? Is there any precedent with other alliances doing this?
Jul 9, 2019, 5:50 am
#323
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,565
While the sky is falling with UA awards, is there still hope (currently) to achieve outsized value with star alliance partner awards?
Going a little off topic I know, but popular consensus here seems to be that partner rewards will also go dynamic. However, is there any foundation to that speculation? Is there any precedent with other alliances doing this?
Going a little off topic I know, but popular consensus here seems to be that partner rewards will also go dynamic. However, is there any foundation to that speculation? Is there any precedent with other alliances doing this?
Jul 9, 2019, 11:14 pm
#324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1MM, Marriott LTP, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,003
While the sky is falling with UA awards, is there still hope (currently) to achieve outsized value with star alliance partner awards?
Going a little off topic I know, but popular consensus here seems to be that partner rewards will also go dynamic. However, is there any foundation to that speculation? Is there any precedent with other alliances doing this?
Going a little off topic I know, but popular consensus here seems to be that partner rewards will also go dynamic. However, is there any foundation to that speculation? Is there any precedent with other alliances doing this?
Jul 10, 2019, 1:17 pm
#325
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,719
While the sky is falling with UA awards, is there still hope (currently) to achieve outsized value with star alliance partner awards?
Going a little off topic I know, but popular consensus here seems to be that partner rewards will also go dynamic. However, is there any foundation to that speculation? Is there any precedent with other alliances doing this?
Going a little off topic I know, but popular consensus here seems to be that partner rewards will also go dynamic. However, is there any foundation to that speculation? Is there any precedent with other alliances doing this?
At this point the window to book great *A awards is still open, and I would not call it a "clear and present danger" but more a reasonable prediction that will be implemented within the next 3 years.
Jul 10, 2019, 2:38 pm
#326
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
There is precedent at UA, try a search for *A blocking. Basically very few if any awards were made available on partners as UA did not want to have to pay partners for those seats. It would not be difficult for UA to implement *A blocking again, but I think the more likely scenario is that they just double the price for such awards if it is too difficult to implement dynamic pricing.
At this point the window to book great *A awards is still open, and I would not call it a "clear and present danger" but more a reasonable prediction that will be implemented within the next 3 years.
At this point the window to book great *A awards is still open, and I would not call it a "clear and present danger" but more a reasonable prediction that will be implemented within the next 3 years.
Jul 11, 2019, 10:49 am
#327
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,893
Delta announced today that spend on its cards was up double digits in the quarter. Some of that may have been signup activity, but spend seems to be pretty high on those cards and growing. Delta also lets you redeem Skymiles for things like upgrades, so maybe this is encouraging more spend on the cards.
Jul 11, 2019, 11:29 pm
#328
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,719
Jul 12, 2019, 7:55 am
#329
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,893
Jul 12, 2019, 5:47 pm
#330
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,719
Of course UA could work with Chase to design a better product. But it's obvious from the WSJ story that UA management has no desire to do so but instead would rather hammer its partners for better business terms. You reap what you sow.