View Poll Results: No longer transfer Chase UR→UA @ 1:1 ratio (or at all)? What to do? What to do?
[NO] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I still don't want any UA/UR Chase product
7.94%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I keep my UA card and [DO NOT] carry UR card.
9.35%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [I KEEP] my UA card(s) and [ADD] UR Chase card(s).
3.74%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [I CLOSE] Chase UA card and [DO NOT WANT] a UR Chase card.
1.87%
[NO] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I dont carry a UA card and I [KEEP] my UR card
26.17%
[NO] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → I [ADD] a UA card and I [CLOSE] my UR card.
0
0%
[✓] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE], I keep [BOTH] my UA and UR Chase cards.
24.77%
[✓] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → I [CLOSE] my UA card(s) and [KEEP] my UR card(s).
22.90%
Voters: 214. You may not vote on this poll
United pushes JPM on Sapphire Reserve
Jul 5, 2019, 8:15 pm
#286
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,128
Here’s some more about Kirby and his efforts to squeeze more money out of his corporate partners despite having long-standing agreements already in place that UA negotiated and agreed to accept years back:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/skift.c...gan-chase/amp/
If I were Chase, I would not be playing kindly with UA under Kirby. Kirby came into UA with UA having had a very fresh, long term contractual agreement with a Chase — say five-year term agreement even as it may be more — and before the ink was even too dry, he tried to renegotiate while exploiting industry and competitive firm information he had picked up from his former employer.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/skift.c...gan-chase/amp/
If I were Chase, I would not be playing kindly with UA under Kirby. Kirby came into UA with UA having had a very fresh, long term contractual agreement with a Chase — say five-year term agreement even as it may be more — and before the ink was even too dry, he tried to renegotiate while exploiting industry and competitive firm information he had picked up from his former employer.
Jul 5, 2019, 9:26 pm
#287
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Chase and Chase’s in-house and retained counsel didn’t put itself into a sub-standard contractual relationship position with UA, and the testimony to that is Kirby’s still whining about this (ever since 2016) and UA’s still with Chase as they were when Kirby came into the picture at UA.
Jul 5, 2019, 10:14 pm
#288
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,128
Chase and Chase’s in-house and retained counsel didn’t put itself into a sub-standard contractual relationship position with UA, and the testimony to that is Kirby’s still whining about this (ever since 2016) and UA’s still with Chase as they were when Kirby came into the picture at UA.
Jul 5, 2019, 11:13 pm
#289
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Kirby’s been tilting at windmills since 2016 when it comes to the Chase contract. Chase can afford to let UA to continue to endure the current contract terms and let UA apply whatever leverage UA has on the eve of the current contract expiration/release-eligible date instead of letting them use current conditions for a free agent — which UA is not since they are tied to an existing contract — to gain leverage for the future too.
Chase would be a fool to succumb to Kirby’s demands for more UA-favorable terms to go effective sooner than the current contract-articulated termination/release-eligible date unless Chase can stack the replacement contract more heavily in Chase’s favor than Chase expects to be able to otherwise get upon the current contract reaching its contract-articulated termination/release-date.
Jul 5, 2019, 11:33 pm
#290
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,801
What’s that leverage UA has, other than threatening to shop the contract around when it comes to renewal? (and they would be doing that anyway and Chase of course knows it). Their loyalty program has arguably become weaker (less attractive) to members with recent changes implemented since the last contract was signed.
Jul 6, 2019, 12:37 am
#291
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,128
Good business relationships, i.e., those that are mutually beneficial, require communication and adjustment. Perhaps Chase holds firm and UA decides that they need to move on at the expiration of the contract. I can't see how that helps out Chase.
My guess, expect UA to pull out of the UR ecosystem as soon as legally possible or change the redemption rate. Let's revisit this thread down the line.
Last edited by 747FC; Jul 6, 2019 at 12:41 am Reason: added info
Jul 6, 2019, 12:50 am
#292
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
UA’s moving ever more toward revenue-based mileage ticket pricing is going to undercut its leverage with Chase and other banks able and willing to offer their own proprietary loyalty program with currency redeemable for travel. I think the US3 either don’t fully appreciate or care what revenue-based mileage ticket pricing will mean for their bank card partnerships and their leverage with those banks longer term.
UA’s idea of a good business relationship when it comes to UA loyalty program customers should be illustrative to Chase and prepare Chase on what to expect from UA: to be a target to be fleeced or otherwise exploited by some Tinder-using romance scam artist. In this case, it would be UA that is the Tinder-using romance scam artist.
UA’s idea of a good business relationship when it comes to UA loyalty program customers should be illustrative to Chase and prepare Chase on what to expect from UA: to be a target to be fleeced or otherwise exploited by some Tinder-using romance scam artist. In this case, it would be UA that is the Tinder-using romance scam artist.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 6, 2019 at 1:02 am
Jul 6, 2019, 8:08 am
#293
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,801
I don’t think so. It is a “simple” business negotiation, and Chase knows much better than anyone here how far they can go for the relationship to still make sense for them. We’ll see what happens.
communications via the WSJ?
The admittedly non-scientific poll at the top of this thread suggests that this might not be terribly helpful to UA. I personally would not switch any spend to any currently existing UA card in that scenario to earn a lower value in a devaluating currency. And since I would no longer be able to convert *if* I find a meaningful award, UA would also not get any money via that route from me/Chase.
And if UA replaced the Visa logo on the Explorer and Club cards with an Amex logo, but otherwise essentially kept them essentially the same, with a 1:1 transfer ratio from MR instead of UR (as seems to work for Delta), I would still not be interested in earning UA miles.
Good business relationships, i.e., those that are mutually beneficial, require communication and adjustment.
My guess, expect UA to pull out of the UR ecosystem as soon as legally possible or change the redemption rate. Let's revisit this thread down the line.
And if UA replaced the Visa logo on the Explorer and Club cards with an Amex logo, but otherwise essentially kept them essentially the same, with a 1:1 transfer ratio from MR instead of UR (as seems to work for Delta), I would still not be interested in earning UA miles.
Jul 6, 2019, 8:53 am
#294
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: UA
Posts: 324
Im in the process of canceling all my airline points cards that come with any annual fee. The new UA mileage redemption system will likely be a disaster for how I use miles once fully implemented.
I currently hold the non United Club sapphire card. Im getting rid of it. Ill always be silver or greater, so until UA guts the free bag benefit on that program, there will be no incremental benefit to it for me. Since miles are devalued, the card and its associated fees provide no incremental benefit, and their business practices are not competitive either. But I doubt UAs new offerings are any better. Im just going with a no fee cash back card.
The first thing I thought when UA announced their points devaluation was...I wonder if they realize how much money theyre going to lose in annual fee/merch fee revenue from this. They probably do.
Although, Ive heard the FAs try to sell the card on flights by saying the sign up points bonus is good for a trip to Hawaii. They better ensure that there is actual availability at 50,000 miles for non elites or theyre gonna get sued.
Looks like UA is trying to have it both ways. Devalue the miles but retain the allure of them. Hard to pull off in practice.
I currently hold the non United Club sapphire card. Im getting rid of it. Ill always be silver or greater, so until UA guts the free bag benefit on that program, there will be no incremental benefit to it for me. Since miles are devalued, the card and its associated fees provide no incremental benefit, and their business practices are not competitive either. But I doubt UAs new offerings are any better. Im just going with a no fee cash back card.
The first thing I thought when UA announced their points devaluation was...I wonder if they realize how much money theyre going to lose in annual fee/merch fee revenue from this. They probably do.
Although, Ive heard the FAs try to sell the card on flights by saying the sign up points bonus is good for a trip to Hawaii. They better ensure that there is actual availability at 50,000 miles for non elites or theyre gonna get sued.
Looks like UA is trying to have it both ways. Devalue the miles but retain the allure of them. Hard to pull off in practice.
Jul 6, 2019, 9:58 pm
#295
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MSY
Programs: AA Plat Pro, UA Plat, VS Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 2,531
Jul 7, 2019, 3:32 am
#296
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Well, a lot of us rode the TY program pretty hard. Earning at 3-5x on all spending was trivially easy in the 2005-2010 period, which you could redeem at 2-3 CPM for flights. Those were good days.
Jul 7, 2019, 7:44 am
#297
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,718
They get a little more rope at this point by focusing on consumers whose choices are guided by less-than-great information or instincts. People in this state still buy timeshare all the time, too. More aware students of this mini-economy are already shuffling toward the exits but are not a majority.
Jul 7, 2019, 7:53 am
#298
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,115
I have a club card. I put $0 of spend on it a year. Except the yearly fee.
90% of my family spend is on the CSR.
my personal spend is on a platinum card.
UA card isn’t even in the mix to spend money on.
if they raise the rate on the club card to match the newly insane club price I’ll most likely cancel
90% of my family spend is on the CSR.
my personal spend is on a platinum card.
UA card isn’t even in the mix to spend money on.
if they raise the rate on the club card to match the newly insane club price I’ll most likely cancel
Jul 7, 2019, 8:41 am
#299
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ATL
Programs: UA:MM 1K HH:Diamond IHG:Plat Marriott:Plat
Posts: 651
My first $5000 of united spending goes on my MP Select card (for the 5K PQM) and everything else goes onto CSR or Amex Plat depending on whether I need insurance or not. The MP Explorer is not a competitive card for this 1K.
Jul 7, 2019, 8:57 am
#300
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,801
I used to do the same when I still cared about chasing status. With MM status achieved, 1K out of reach (thanks, PQD) and Platinum devalued, that stopped and 3X UR was more appealing than 3X UA. I still put gas, groceries and home improvement charges on the Select card for 2X UA until they devalued MileagePlus enough that the flexibility of 1.5X UR (via FU) seemed better than the questionable value of 2X UR.
Last edited by notquiteaff; Jul 7, 2019 at 9:19 am
