View Poll Results: No longer transfer Chase UR→UA @ 1:1 ratio (or at all)? What to do? What to do?
[NO] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I still don't want any UA/UR Chase product
7.94%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I keep my UA card and [DO NOT] carry UR card.
9.35%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [I KEEP] my UA card(s) and [ADD] UR Chase card(s).
3.74%
[✓] UA Card, [NO] Ultimate Rewards Card → [I CLOSE] Chase UA card and [DO NOT WANT] a UR Chase card.
1.87%
[NO] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE] I dont carry a UA card and I [KEEP] my UR card
26.17%
[NO] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → I [ADD] a UA card and I [CLOSE] my UR card.
0
0%
[✓] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → [NO CHANGE], I keep [BOTH] my UA and UR Chase cards.
24.77%
[✓] UA Card, [✓] Ultimate Rewards Card → I [CLOSE] my UA card(s) and [KEEP] my UR card(s).
22.90%
Voters: 214. You may not vote on this poll
United pushes JPM on Sapphire Reserve
Jul 4, 2019, 7:09 am
#256
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 1,393
I believe your swipe fee is a little high.
I’m certain that your mileage purchase fee is a lot high. The estimate I’ve seen is half a cent each. I’d put an absolute cap at 1.5 cents each, because I don’t see any way that they would pay UA a higher rate in transfers than they offer through the travel portal, but the .5 cent estimate feels like it’s in the right ballpark to me.
Remember, Chase buys a lot of miles (literally, billions).
Of course we don't know what UA's true costs are and how low they can/are willing to go as far as their agreement with Chase before it becomes unprofitable. Also, as mentioned earlier, there are lots of miles that go unredeemed and I'm sure that UA factors that in as well.
Jul 4, 2019, 8:03 am
#257
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
UA’s at a point too where its making money from one business activity runs up against its making money from another business activity. That’s UA the cannibal today.
Jul 4, 2019, 12:08 pm
#258
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,852
UA regularly sells miles at 2 cpm. Chase provides cardholders 1 cpm statement credit. So 0.5 cpm or less is probably closer to reality.
Jul 4, 2019, 12:55 pm
#259
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 1,679
So while Merchant fees are higher than 2% for most retailers, the entire 2% does not go to Chase (even if the Merchant is using Chase as the processor). So using Chase as an example, when a Chase card is swiped Chase gets a fee, Visa gets a fee, then the Merchant's processor gets a cut (the largest are Worldpay and First Data, Chase also does Merchant processing). So for large retailers I doubt Chase is getting anywhere near 2% of the transaction volume.
Jul 4, 2019, 4:26 pm
#260
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,884
So while Merchant fees are higher than 2% for most retailers, the entire 2% does not go to Chase (even if the Merchant is using Chase as the processor). So using Chase as an example, when a Chase card is swiped Chase gets a fee, Visa gets a fee, then the Merchant's processor gets a cut (the largest are Worldpay and First Data, Chase also does Merchant processing). So for large retailers I doubt Chase is getting anywhere near 2% of the transaction volume.
Jul 4, 2019, 4:53 pm
#261
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
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Posts: 102,095
Yes, but the formula probably isn’t the same between all given banks and their respective bank card affinity partners.
I wouldn’t rule out that the inside knowledge of some other company’s/companies’ formula arrangements in this market may be what is part of the driver behind UA’s complaining about Chase UR cards.
Chase’s UR is costing UA a substantial enough chunk of its UA card business that UA management wants a change.
I wouldn’t rule out that the inside knowledge of some other company’s/companies’ formula arrangements in this market may be what is part of the driver behind UA’s complaining about Chase UR cards.
Chase’s UR is costing UA a substantial enough chunk of its UA card business that UA management wants a change.
Jul 4, 2019, 5:32 pm
#262
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,141
UA Retaliates Against Chase
Will that be the headline...when UA no longer participates in UR? Or, creates a redemption rate that makes using UR-cards a less attractive alternative than UA cards (say 4 UR--> 1 UA).
Someone posted that Chase and UA have a six year agreement on their co-branded cards (IIRC). That agreement does not necessarily have anything to do with their UR agreement.
Stay tuned, the other shoe may drop sooner, if not later.
Someone posted that Chase and UA have a six year agreement on their co-branded cards (IIRC). That agreement does not necessarily have anything to do with their UR agreement.
Stay tuned, the other shoe may drop sooner, if not later.
Jul 4, 2019, 5:37 pm
#263
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: Hilton-Diamond Lifetime Platinum AA UA, WN-CP, SPG Gold.
Posts: 7,377
No business leaves money on the table, they make a profit...
over the years I have taken many trip that I never would have taken
Love the FA Card pushers been a good ride,,
over the years I have taken many trip that I never would have taken
Love the FA Card pushers been a good ride,,
Jul 4, 2019, 6:14 pm
#264
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
Will that be the headline...when UA no longer participates in UR? Or, creates a redemption rate that makes using UR-cards a less attractive alternative than UA cards (say 4 UR--> 1 UA).
Someone posted that Chase and UA have a six year agreement on their co-branded cards (IIRC). That agreement does not necessarily have anything to do with their UR agreement.
Stay tuned, the other shoe may drop sooner, if not later.
Someone posted that Chase and UA have a six year agreement on their co-branded cards (IIRC). That agreement does not necessarily have anything to do with their UR agreement.
Stay tuned, the other shoe may drop sooner, if not later.
Jul 4, 2019, 6:15 pm
#265
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,884
Yes, but the formula probably isn’t the same between all given banks and their respective bank card affinity partners.
I wouldn’t rule out that the inside knowledge of some other company’s/companies’ formula arrangements in this market may be what is part of the driver behind UA’s complaining about Chase UR cards.
Chase’s UR is costing UA a substantial enough chunk of its UA card business that UA management wants a change.
Jul 4, 2019, 6:19 pm
#266
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,846
Something will change, eventually. I am not going to worry now about what I can’t control. I haven’t shopped recently for UA award flights, but I suspect that I will simply have less desire to get UA miles by any means given the dynamic pricing devaluation 4:1 or 1:1 makes zero difference to me if the price for an award is 200k-300k miles.
and then there is the impact of the next recession
Jul 4, 2019, 6:56 pm
#267
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,141
Does it work that way? I would have guessed that Chase sets the exchange ratio.
...
Something will change, eventually. I am not going to worry now about what I can’t control. I haven’t shopped recently for UA award flights, but I suspect that I will simply have less desire to get UA miles by any means given the dynamic pricing devaluation 4:1 or 1:1 makes zero difference to me if the price for an award is 200k-300k miles.
Last edited by 747FC; Jul 4, 2019 at 6:58 pm Reason: grammar
Jul 4, 2019, 7:15 pm
#268
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
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Posts: 102,095
We would almost certainly get some advance notice before a UR to UA exchange rate adjustment.
I do have to wonder if UA management is complaining about Chase UR because UA management is struggling to try to live up to investor expectations and trying to fill the gap with a desperate earnings management tool or strategy built upon assistance from Chase.
UA should know better than to try to beat up its domestic partner.
I am pretty certain that UA can’t change mileage prices so quickly and easily when it comes to its contractual counter-party with whom it’s in a massively material value, long-term contract for selling huge numbers of miles. And that would mean the price change would have to be agreed by both sides prior to becoming effective.
The biggest bank card issuers have had lawyers tighten up these agreements over the years and I doubt that they’ve gotten so sloppy as to make exiting or breach — or a contrived exit to veil intent to breach — any easier for the airlines than before. Speaking of the airlines for whom the banks have affinity bank cards.
I do have to wonder if UA management is complaining about Chase UR because UA management is struggling to try to live up to investor expectations and trying to fill the gap with a desperate earnings management tool or strategy built upon assistance from Chase.
UA should know better than to try to beat up its domestic partner.
It is a transactional relationship. UA already appears to assert that Chase has negatively impacted the value of their cards (and profit). How to regain that value: Make Chase UR cards a less attractive alternative in the only way they can, by changing the negotiated redemption rate.
I can't imagine anyone on this board knows how it really works, but with two parties involved, certainly it is not Chase that sets the exchange ratio. After all, Chase is purchasing UA miles, so UA has some say in how much they charge for their miles. Like any economy, there is a degree of inelasticity. Set the price too high and the purchaser (Chase or its frequent flyer clientele) find another alternatives.
I can't imagine anyone on this board knows how it really works, but with two parties involved, certainly it is not Chase that sets the exchange ratio. After all, Chase is purchasing UA miles, so UA has some say in how much they charge for their miles. Like any economy, there is a degree of inelasticity. Set the price too high and the purchaser (Chase or its frequent flyer clientele) find another alternatives.
The biggest bank card issuers have had lawyers tighten up these agreements over the years and I doubt that they’ve gotten so sloppy as to make exiting or breach — or a contrived exit to veil intent to breach — any easier for the airlines than before. Speaking of the airlines for whom the banks have affinity bank cards.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 5, 2019 at 12:00 am Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Jul 4, 2019, 7:17 pm
#269
Join Date: Jun 2019
Programs: MileagePlus
Posts: 200
Something I learned when using my MileagePlus Explorer miles is that you of course don't get reward miles on reward tickets...whereas if you book through the CUR portal you get miles. 
I don't have a CSR or CSP but I'm thinking of opening it and cancelling my MileagePlus card before next year's annual fee. Or maybe I'll keep it. I dunno, the 2 lounge passes is kinda nice. I'm *A Gold but it's nice to have lounge access for domestic flights for one trip at Terminal C in EWR. Lol.
I don't have a CSR or CSP but I'm thinking of opening it and cancelling my MileagePlus card before next year's annual fee. Or maybe I'll keep it. I dunno, the 2 lounge passes is kinda nice. I'm *A Gold but it's nice to have lounge access for domestic flights for one trip at Terminal C in EWR. Lol.
Jul 4, 2019, 7:26 pm
#270
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Something I learned when using my MileagePlus Explorer miles is that you of course don't get reward miles on reward tickets...whereas if you book through the CUR portal you get miles.
I don't have a CSR or CSP but I'm thinking of opening it and cancelling my MileagePlus card before next year's annual fee. Or maybe I'll keep it. I dunno, the 2 lounge passes is kinda nice. I'm *A Gold but it's nice to have lounge access for domestic flights for one trip at Terminal C in EWR. Lol.
I don't have a CSR or CSP but I'm thinking of opening it and cancelling my MileagePlus card before next year's annual fee. Or maybe I'll keep it. I dunno, the 2 lounge passes is kinda nice. I'm *A Gold but it's nice to have lounge access for domestic flights for one trip at Terminal C in EWR. Lol.