phkc070408

I'm assuming that would still be an eastbound move (EWR-BOM) since it is within range of the plane. According to Wikipedia, the 777-300ER has a range of 7,370 nautical miles, which converts to 8,481 standard miles. In comparison, the SYD-IAH flight is 8,598 miles. Unless the 789 has a faster airspeed than the 777W, there shouldn't be a crew restriction within the entire range of the 77W.

rmadisonwi

The "range" of a plane is never a cut-and-dried number. It is based on tons of factors (payload, local airport conditions, enroute weather, diversion options, destination airport conditions, customer-specific options). To say a 777-300ER can fly 7,370 nm (as opposed to 7,200 nm, 7,500 nm, or whatever) is fairly meaningless without context.

On the one hand, there's the question of the absolute maximum fuel the plane can have for takeoff. A 777-300ER with only fuel and pilots could probably go well past 8,000 nm (I don't know that with absolute certainty, but it would seem within the realm of possibility). But, of course, an airline wants to carry passengers, bags and cargo. Every passenger, bag, or pound of cargo you add increases the amount of fuel needed to go a certain distance (more mass to be moved), and, once you hit maximum takeoff weight, each additional bit of payload also means less fuel you can take.

Virtually every long-haul route has some fuel-payload tradeoff consideration, and the more payload you add, the more the maximum range drops off. To get range, conversely, means reducing payload. Reducing payload reduces revenue, and reducing revenue challenges the profitability of the flight.

This is all, of course, assuming that a 77W could, in fact, still operate EWR-BOM at all (either within crew legality, or simply whether it could take enough fuel to make it) given the amount of deviation from optimum routing that is required. Given that both Iran and Pakistan are off limits, you either have to bypass both of them. Going south/west of them takes you over Iraq. While not an active warzone, still probably has limited diversion options in the event of an emergency, and even ignoring that, you'd be pushing/exceeding the practical economical range of the plane.

Going north/east of both of them, meaning you'd approach India through the Himalayas, which by my understanding doesn't meet legal requirements for depressurization / emergency alternate landing scenarios, and would equally (if not moreso) stretch the limits of the plane's physical capabilities.

So, I'm going to assume that UA made the determination that, given safety, practicality, legality, and economics, there is simply no way to operate this flight nonstop.

SuperFlyBoy

So why not operate it with a stopover in FRA/MUC/CPH as was done earlier?

Might be worth it, although a bit more complex...

skidooman

An European pit stop is exactly what AC did when the Pakistani airspace closed at first for the Delhi flight. But eventually they had to suspend operation to DEL.

No more Delhi, no more Mumbai.

Geopolitical tensions have real costs.

threeoh

With Pakistan, Iran, AND the Gulf closed, that's a long way around, and then you have potential visa issues, not a crew base, etc.

Carberry

New to UA (about to status match from AA EXP) - booked YYZ-EWR-BOM for late June. YYZ-EWR in Y (regional jet with no C so it booked into B) and P (business) from EWR-BOM.

I called yesterday and after spending 25 min on hold, got the India call center, rep would only rebook me in Y for the transpacific leg on CX and C for HKG-BOM - said that the first leg was in Y so that's all they could rebook me in. Talked to supervisor who said the same.

This is a business class ticket - the only reason I am flying any economy is because the regional jet to EWR doesn't have C.

Calling normal reservations number seems futile. Anyone have any suggestions of how to reach someone rational at UA? I would normally refund and rebook on a different carrier but fare has doubled as it is just a few days away.

Thanks for any advice.

fumje

Have you called multiple times, or just once?

When you get nonsense answers like that, you can just try again and hope get someone who understands it's fared in P from YYZ-BOM. They should be able to see that themselves, but they may not be of mind to do so, as you experienced. Perhaps if possible for you, if you wait until after status match you can get access to agents more likely to be competent.

Maybe DM to the UA Twitter team can also help you.

Carberry

On the third call I got them to at least get me in business transpacific ORD-HKG and in business HKG-BOM but they insisted because the first segment was in B, they can only put me in economy YYZ-ORD. Ridiculous but better than flying in back all the way. I just don't understand how they can't see this is a paid business ticket...it

Addition: Once I realized how they were thinking (that the first segment had to be economy), I just tried to work within their (albeit ridiculous) parameters

AUSNYCflyer

Carberry, you got further along than I did on the CX reroute. The first two agents said they couldn't do a re-route at all and I just needed to wait.
When I got to the third agent, I read out the alternative choices (I was thinking within *A would be easy so I proposed BOM-SIN-EWR): she said no, because SQ would probably cancel my reservation (?). Option 2 was a QR flight which she couldn't see at all, and option 3 I presented was CX through HKG. She was able to add that to the reservation and after a long hold for ticketing, came back and said that a supervisor said no because the policy is to only reroute on LH, LX, and AC.

mh3265a

I guess I'm a little surprised they are cancelling the flights for this long. I would think they could find some type of routing that would be able to avoid Iranian airspace?

dinoscool3

The problem is both Iran and Pakistan are down/complicated, this makes re-routing very hard without a technical stop.

bhunt

how much longer would a west route be with a fuel stop in HNL, SFO, or ANC? Crew issues?

lazytom

BOM: Great Circle Mapper
(SFO-BOM and HNL-BOM are longer than EWR-BOM direct)

DEL: Great Circle Mapper
(SFO-DEL and HNL-DEL are longer than EWR-DEL direct)

lazytom

A more southerly routing with a stop in say DXB might work: Great Circle Mapper
(still probably would have to take a more southerly route between DXB and DEL/BOM than the direct GC route to stay south of Iran/Pakistan)

WineCountryUA

except for the NOTAM: KICZ A0015/19-SECURITY..UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ADVISORY FOR OVERWATER AIRSPACE ABOVE THE PERSIAN GULF AND GULF OF OMAN