Best Option for weekly commute Burbank-Palo Alto (Calif)
 

I recently got an assignment in Palo Alto that I will need to fly into most weeks for the next year or so. I am currently UA Gold based in the LA area with BUR as my preferred airport. This assignment will easily push me into Plat and potentially 1K. I'm trying to min/max upgrades on this assignment and looking for feedback before I start booking. I see three routes:

1. Fly BUR-SFO on the 738/A319.
2. Fly LAX-SFO on the 739s
3. Switch to Alaska on BUR-SJC

#1 offers limited competition and staying away from LAX; but only 28 J seats daily to go around
#2 offers much better scheduling opportunities and much higher volume of J seats; but much more competition
#3 is the most convenient airport combination and probably the least competition; but I would have to start over on an unknown airline (never flown Alaska before)

I'm guessing the most convenient flights on LAX-SFO will have stiff competition even as a 1K? Is it even worth it to look at LAX flights?

On my own money, I would fly WN on BUR-SJC. For a regular intra-California commute, I just don't think the hassle of getting to LAX and/or SFO is really worth it. BUR-SFO had a lot of CR2s also, not sure to what degree that will permanently stay away.

BUR is going to be the easier upgrade, but the schedule is poor compared to LAX. Not sure I see that much value in a sub-500 mile CPU.. you'll spend more time getting to/from the airport than on a plane anyway.

Good points, thanks. I'm used to flying LAX-EWR so the thought of (relatively) easy upgrades made me greedy. You're right that the convenience of BUR/SJC is probably worth more than a free upgrade on a 1 hour flight.

My only concern is after this assignment I will probably end up flying back to NYC again, so the potential 1K status would help with LAX-EWR a ton. Not to mention status on Alaska or Southwest wouldn't be of much use in that situation other than for personal flights. I'll have to map it out but I think the sweet spot might be BUR-SFO so I can maintain my status with UA for future assignments.

I would just make sure you do the math on status though; a weekly round trip BUR-SFO for all 52 weeks of the year will still not earn 1K. Palo Alto is about half as far from SJC as SFO, but admittedly both are an absolute disaster to reach in traffic, and both are seriously lacking in their Caltrain connections.

In that case it would be a no-brainer. I actually live a bit more central to both airports in Fairfax. On a good day I can get to LAX in about 35-40 mins, on a bad day, well....we all know how that goes. BUR is more consistently around 30 mins unless the 101 is really screwed.

I would avoid the CR2's at all cost since I am 6'5" and can be relatively flexible with my schedule. I would rather buy a J ticket with my own money on a mainline flight than travel for free on a CR2.

How are you doing on PQDs? It takes a lot of LA-Bay Area flights to get to $15K in fares, especially if your schedule is regular enough that you can book in advance.

Avoiding SFO is a huge win if you would actually like to get where you're going on time. Delays at SFO are legendary.

Not really. As a 1K, you'd get four RPUs plus at least 6 GPUs. While those can all theoretically be used on LAX-EWR, if you're flying at peak business times, you'll find the certificates almost impossible to use.

Alaska operates both LAX-JFK and LAX-EWR, although admittedly not as frequently as UA does.

IMO, there are two questions to ask. 1 - would you reach 1K? (Platinum is not better enough than Gold to matter), and 2 - could you use your GPUs? There's a massive thread about GPUs being relatively useless; for the long-haul markets where you'd really want to use them, they can't be used on the least expensive fares, and they often fail to clear. Are you able to travel midweek to take advantage of available upgrade space? Can you be flexible in terms of schedule, stops, and destination?

If the answer to both of these is yes, then UA might make sense. If not, I would strongly recommend Alaska. MVP Gold 75K is an excellent status level.

I assume you mean the free drinks in economy. If you're counting on upgrades, suggest you recalibrate.

And if you choose to fly UA in/out of SFO, suggest you also factor in the cost of a UC membership, so you have a comfortable place to wait out the delays.

Ah, OK....Right! I assumed you lived in the Valley. Fairfax presents its own traffic challenges, but if you'll regularly be going against traffic over Laurel Canyon to BUR, I think that BUR has the edge over LAX (as long as you can avoid the CR2's :D). I don't know how far ahead you'll be booking these itineraries, but you also have the option of flying out of LAX if upgrade chances look better for any particular flight. And if you're not parking at the airport, you can fly out of one airport and into another.

P.S. flights (EWR/BOS-LAX/SFO) are next to impossible to upgrade, even on off days (Tu/W/Th/Sa) as 1K, and even as GS I have been #1 on the upgrade list a few times this year and not cleared as people buy up or SDC to zero out the inventory. It's very tough, and a stroke of luck to clear generally. 1K will serve you better if you are flying a lot of destination routes - locations that are not UA hubs. For instance, getting upgraded flying a hub to GRR, DTW, MSP, MCO, MIA, BOS are far easier than upgrades on hub-hub routes on UA.

Do you really value first class over, say, exit row window that much on any 737? For a 1 hr flight? I think you have more legroom in the exit row... it seems strange to optimize on upgrades for that short flight.

Maybe legroom is not the reason for valuing the front cabin. Each of us have different parts of the overall experience we value.

Hey, I love F and I especially love F on UA.

I'm just questioning the prioritization for such a short flight. Certainly, we each prioritize things differently, so there are no wrong answers, but it's worth asking.

Personally (and, again, there are no wrong answers -- I'm not saying that anyone else should prioritize the same way that I do) I would prioritize avoiding LAX and minimizing time in Bay Area traffic.

It's also worth mentioning that if you status match to AS you will get gold status (no challenge), a minimum of 1,000 (rather valuable) RDM per segment, significant flexibility as long as you don't buy basic economy (all change fees waived, and co-terminals valid for SDCs, giving you 3 airports on one end and 4 on the other), and significantly easier upgrades (as compared to UA on those routes). F service on UA is generally better, though AS has more pitch.

Personally, I generally prefer UA to AS for their network, first class service and first class hard product (when lie-flats are available). For shuttling around the west coast, though, I feel that AS is superior. They have a better west-coast network (more small airports) and no airline earns miles like AS when flying on cheap economy tickets.

Another option (not mentioned in the original post) is JetSuiteX. However, the commute from OAK or CCR to Palo Alto and back may offset the convenience in this case -- especially during rush hour times.

Agree with much of what you state, having recently flown F on AS quite a few times (another story) I prefer AS seats which I fell are more comfortable and as you state greater pitch. Of course I'll take a lie flat any day over a seat for a TCON flight but apart from that I like the AS F product. Also post merger with Virgin AS opened up service to location that fit my business and personal travel needs. That was a real game changer for me. The AS FF program is very generous but do not hold the AS CC yet, probably will next year.

Off topic but as far as getting around the various Bay Area airports given the horrific traffic situation that is about to change soon with the arrival of Voom, they are backed by Air Bus and look like they are in the heli shuttle business to stay. I understand they will first like the Bay Area airports and with Sacramento and Santa Rosa to follow. Probably will look into pick up spots in Sausalito at the Heli port, Napa airport, and I suspect somewhere in the far East Bay.

I don't think there is any real debate that AS has the best product in almost any cabin of a US airline, especially the FFP. The caveats in my mind are

(1) This only applies if you are flying within their network, which is still quite limited even after the VX acquisition.
(2) Not true on the small number of routes where they compete directly with regularly scheduled lie-flat aircraft
(3) This one is controversial, but for the non-status Y pax, I continue to think that WN is light-years ahead of any other airline, assuming competitive price and schedule. I still utilize them almost exclusively for intra-California travel.

Aren't there some semi-private options that fly to SQL? OAK at high commute is probably almost two hours; CCR is a good joke :)

Until, and perhaps even if, they fly to PAO, getting to Palo Alto will be a disaster in traffic. When trying to drive to SFO from Palo Alto it could take me 30 minutes just to reach a freeway.

I see you already did it, but $239 for a redeye into a lie-flat is a no-brainer!

Yeah, I was only referring to flying around the west coast, where the AS network is actually superior. Leave the west coast and you have to deal with a significantly diminished network.

Honestly, the ability to fly BUR-SJC would be enough for me, without the other stuff. You are skipping a lot of traffic, and getting through the airports faster too. And those ERJ175's are quite comfortable -- Much wider coach seats than a 737, and even wider than an A320.

Don't even get me started on the traffic issue in the South Bay.... It is my life.... if that is what you want to call it. As far as SQL I don't know if Voom is looking into that my suspicion is no, not in the immediate future. For now I know the service will only link the Bay area commercial airports and probably SAC. Later to expand into pick up at various other locations such as Gnoss Field, Sausalito (which previously had service), and probably something out east/Walnut Creek. Initial take off and landings will be executive terminals such as Signature Aviation at SFO with shuttle service to the main terminals. They are trying to keep pricing competitive but I guess we will soon see.

Pulled out the discussion of weekly commuting to Palo Aalto area from LA / Burbank area as https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...lto-calif.html as it covered many topics outside the scope of this thread.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

if you want to get there consistently on time, avoid SFO on a regional jet.

My vote is for WN.

Also, BUR is a great, easy airport to get to/from and in/out.

SJC is a no brainer!

Agree about BUR and SJC (great airports) but WN is trash. The lack of SDCs makes it extremely inflexible -- you end up paying the walk-up fare too often. No change fees and no bag fees is nice but you get that on AS as well (with status). What you really want to avoid is the fare differences on those last minute changes. I guess if this is all OPM that may not be a priority.

Also, if OP was trying to optimize on upgrades, I'm guessing that WN is the exact opposite of what he is looking for.

I would always take the train to either, if possible. On an express, it's 2x or 3x as fast as by car.

Why the preference for J on a 1hr flight? :confused:

Get your PPL and IR. :p

Same day standby on WN is only for earlier flights. It's quite inflexible. Free confirmed changes to earlier or later flights is much more valuable.

RE: AS, I disagree. The difference between Gold and 75k on AS is minimal. The real value is mostly at the Gold level. Gold gets you all change fees waived (which is huge), a 100% mileage bonus (which is also huge), and 4 upgrades which have limited value (due to minimum K fare required required for use, the fact that they can't be waitlisted, and the fact that when U space is actually available at booking, it's a sign that they expect to have plenty of first class availability and you are likely to get a comp upgrade anyway as Gold).

At 75k that bonus goes up to 125% (which is nice but not that much more than gold) and a 4 more upgrades (which still have limited value). Earning 75k is huge (because you get a 50k RDM bonus) but you don't get that for status matching. The marginal value of actually having 75k (instead of gold) is far less than the value of that 50k bonus.

There is a lot more discussion about this on the AS forum (where it belongs) but to go back to the OP's dilemma, I would not suggest choosing WN over AS simply to avoid "wasting" the status match. Pick up the AS credit card as well, put all the AS flights on it, and In that one year as AS MVPG taking 2x short-hop segments per week, he'll earn 100k miles from flying, 40k from credit card bonus, and maybe another 30k from the spend on the flights --- that's 170k miles. Considering the great AS partner award charts, and the stopovers allowed, that's enough (for example) for a business class 3-city trip through Asia (2 one-ways with a stopover in each direction, on different partners -- eg CX and JL) and enough left over to be half way towards the next round trip.

On WN he will earn enough to suffer the indignity of a few more WN flights.

My personal data on this front is 20 years old, so please keep that in mind.

I want to college in Shallow Alto, and worked for the following 2 years in Mountain View.

I had to go to Los Angeles 1x per month.

I used AA to fly SJC-LAX because our LA office was really close to LAX.

But, if Burbank was more convenient, I would have flown WN in a heartbeat.

If money is no issue fly WN Burbank into (or out of) SJC and take Voom (in about a month) to PAO. No pricing on Voom yet but expect to pay just south of $300 each way.

I find it hard to believe that a company who is not ok paying to fly you in first class from LAX (usually less -- sometimes much less -- than a $100 upcharge over E) is going to be ok shelling out $300 each way for transportation to the airport.

Also there is a 0% chance that I'm getting into a helicopter, but that's just me.

I'm less than 15 mins. from SFO, so am partial to that airport. BUT after decades of delays with most of my flying -- short-haul by numbers of flights -- and after hitting 2MM on UA, I finally reached the unassailable point made upthread by several, that SFO is far too delay-prone to support a heavy SoCal to NorCal schedule as the OP is looking at.

I vote for the choice suggested by several: BUR to SJC on WN. It has about 12 N/s a day each way, between the two points, whereas AS has only 3 N/S RTs.

I've moved almost all of my intra-Calif. flying from UA to WN and am much happier doing it. Their greater reliability and faster flight times (say OAK to LAX) makes up for the lack of the United Club and First seats. With WN flight times sub one-hour, I can easily tolerate the less seat pitch than UA E+ and I notice that before I finish most of the work or more fun reading to do on board, I'm about to land. WN often has a status match program pending for legacy airline status holders to match to A-list. As a WN "low level" elite (basic A-list), I find I'm on the plane faster than with UA's 6 or 7 pre-boarding groups before my group 1. And there's none of the drama I regularly experience in flying UA (gate's blocked, paperwork isn't ready, mechanic has to look at this or that before we push, etc., etc.), especially when you're counting on getting to your destination airport in an hour or less.

OP, not sure if BUR-SJC is flown by AS mainline, but given your description of yourself as 6'5" avoid WN, all they fly is aweful 737s with their narrow seats and 31" pitch. I will just highlight that AS has 41" pitch in its domestic F on new birds, and gives more room than any other US carrier. I would go with them for that alone. See if they will status match you from UA (they should) and fly them.

LOL, good point. I did add the caveat "if money is no issue". However, I suspect that the SJC to PAO run for Voom will get takers. At certain times of the day that drive can be horrific and as the saying goes .... time is money. To that point there is seemingly no end of money to some in the Valley.

It's also like $40 more for F advance purchase.

I flew SFO-BUR every week for ~2.5 years when consulting. Morning flights were typically always on time. The afternoon flight once in a while got delayed due to flow control (due to fog). I only had a handful of really bad delays. When I did the route it was all CRJ200s with the occasional CRJ700. However, it seems they have a mainline leg here and there now.

Hey, you can always fly private to PAO, or better yet NUQ (Moffett Field) and hang out with Sergey/Larry in the lounge! Just kidding...

You can also fly JetsuiteX BUR-OAK. Getting through BUR security is so fast that I don't know that it offers you much at that end, but it would speed things up from the Bay Area end. But for Palo Alto you're much better off sticking with SJC, both for distance from your destination and airport ease.

Reliever airports are where its at for this type of mission: Whatever airline you choose, go BUR/SJC.

SFO ATC delays are no fun.
LAX is often a long taxi... your ground time can approach the flight time.