UA orders 20 E175s, comments on A321XLR
Jun 17, 2019, 4:58 pm
#16
Original Poster
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What is a big frustrating is that UA feels like they are going to blow it on their NMA replacement. The XLR seems like it’s a great replacement for the 752, and instead they are content on letting their 752s age out (or break) and praying that Boeing will do the 797 sooner rather than later. Having what appears like no plan with regards to that part of their fleet planning is very frustrating. It also makes me wonder what the plan is for the 767s, which the XLRs cannot replace. Airbus seems to have a lot better options ATM.
Jun 17, 2019, 7:15 pm
#17
Join Date: May 2001
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Jun 17, 2019, 7:16 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2008
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What is a big frustrating is that UA feels like they are going to blow it on their NMA replacement. The XLR seems like it’s a great replacement for the 752, and instead they are content on letting their 752s age out (or break) and praying that Boeing will do the 797 sooner rather than later. Having what appears like no plan with regards to that part of their fleet planning is very frustrating. It also makes me wonder what the plan is for the 767s, which the XLRs cannot replace. Airbus seems to have a lot better options ATM.
The history post being taking over by McDonald Douglas is not a good one. Skipped out on both a new large A/C AND a new narrow body, elected to do a further version of the 747, the -800, which got nowhere. Then finally - while putting off a replacement for the ageing 737 and 767/757 line - elected to a leap forward with the 787, only to blow the opportunity by using it as a chance to offshore the jobs of those pesky machinists.
Meanwhile the disaster that was the 787 program, used up so much of Boeings (sharply reduced) engineering resources that they put off the new narrow body program, then had to go with the MAX at the end, and now that it has blow up, the MoM (797) program is on hold.
Other than at the very largest size (the 777-9), where Airbus does not really have a competing aircraft, Airbus now blows away Boeing. The A222/223 is superior to anything that Boeing offers. The Neo is better than the MAX, particuarly the A321neo is better than the junk MAX10, Boeing has nothing to compete with against the A321neoULR, and the A359 is a better bird than the B787.
This is what you get when you under-invest for now going on 15 years....
Jun 17, 2019, 8:10 pm
#19
Formerly known as newbie elite
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Best aircraft bathroom for tall (and wide) people ever, at least on the one I flew on with LX, loved it. Crew seemed really happy working with it as well (after usual initial teething pains) after asking them about it. Great plane.
Jun 17, 2019, 8:53 pm
#21
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I don't think UA has a plan. Their "plan" is to hope that something cheap drops into their lap, like the B773s did. They have a residual loyalty from the CO days to Boeing, but Boeing is being run into the ground by being managed by a bunch of cost cutting bozos, trying to wring every possible penny out of each quarter, with no long term planning. They are following the Hunter Keay version of wall street of cutting everything good because, well, people have to fly on something...<br />...<br />Other than at the very largest size (the 777-9), where Airbus does not really have a competing aircraft, Airbus now blows away Boeing. The A222/223 is superior to anything that Boeing offers. The Neo is better than the MAX, particuarly the A321neo is better than the junk MAX10, Boeing has nothing to compete with against the A321neoULR, and the A359 is a better bird than the B787.<br /><br />This is what you get when you under-invest for now going on 15 years....
Jun 18, 2019, 4:33 am
#24
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SEA
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Posts: 268
Because it makes sense to buy a Chinese made plane that is now subject to an extra 25% cost in the form of tarrifs? 🤔
Jun 18, 2019, 5:03 am
#25
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
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What is a big frustrating is that UA feels like they are going to blow it on their NMA replacement. The XLR seems like it’s a great replacement for the 752, and instead they are content on letting their 752s age out (or break) and praying that Boeing will do the 797 sooner rather than later. Having what appears like no plan with regards to that part of their fleet planning is very frustrating. It also makes me wonder what the plan is for the 767s, which the XLRs cannot replace. Airbus seems to have a lot better options ATM.
NMA would still be in the design phase; the fix for the MAX was all software. Probably different engineering teams.
What it did do was postpone the announcement. It would be awful to launch NMA publicly right now. Would create a halo of distrust around the plane. The original plan was a 2020 intro - but UA and DL have been leaning hard on Boeing to move it up. I was hoping they’d succeed and we’d have seen the plans at Paris this year, but the optics would be horrendous.
That said - work can certainly continue behind the scenes - when they do finally introduce it, it’ll likely just be further along than it is now. I’m absolutely certain that UA (and others) are incredibly well briefed on NMA’s progress. I’m guessing UA has made a handshake commitment to NMA; it’s basically an airplane built specifically for UA and DL.
So the “lack of a plan” is probably not the case at all - it’s just hidden from view until the time is right.
Jun 18, 2019, 7:30 am
#26
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Jun 18, 2019, 8:38 am
#27
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But yeah, it's painfully obvious that there's no plan, at all. United is just going to let the entire fleet age out, and wind down the airline because it "can't compete."
Jun 18, 2019, 8:47 am
#28
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,107
I’m going to guess (and yes, just a guess) that the MAX debacle really hasn’t interfered with the NMA project’s progress.
NMA would still be in the design phase; the fix for the MAX was all software. Probably different engineering teams.
What it did do was postpone the announcement. It would be awful to launch NMA publicly right now. Would create a halo of distrust around the plane. The original plan was a 2020 intro - but UA and DL have been leaning hard on Boeing to move it up. I was hoping they’d succeed and we’d have seen the plans at Paris this year, but the optics would be horrendous.
That said - work can certainly continue behind the scenes - when they do finally introduce it, it’ll likely just be further along than it is now. I’m absolutely certain that UA (and others) are incredibly well briefed on NMA’s progress. I’m guessing UA has made a handshake commitment to NMA; it’s basically an airplane built specifically for UA and DL.
So the “lack of a plan” is probably not the case at all - it’s just hidden from view until the time is right.
Jun 18, 2019, 9:04 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
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Which would necessarily be the case for a publicly-traded entity to the extent said plans involve billions of dollars of aircraft orders and what is likely a heated battle between manufacturers.
But yeah, it's painfully obvious that there's no plan, at all. United is just going to let the entire fleet age out, and wind down the airline because it "can't compete."
But yeah, it's painfully obvious that there's no plan, at all. United is just going to let the entire fleet age out, and wind down the airline because it "can't compete."
Engineer: "Our 757's are getting pretty long in the tooth... Just smacked one up pretty bad in Newark the other day, gonna have to drag one out of the desert to fix it."
Director: "We still have 757's?!?"
VP: "What's a 757?"
That's how it goes, right?
In all seriousness, there's absolutely a plan. It might still be a little fluid, but there's definitely a plan. The fact that they don't lay it all out on the table so us armchair CEO's can tear it apart is called... business.
Jun 18, 2019, 10:11 am
#30
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
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I think the broader reality is that what Delta once did under its ex-NWA management - scrounge around for used A/C and trying to make things work on a year to year basis - appears to be UA's current strategy. Yes, they are waiting on the MoM aircraft, but that does not solve United's broader issue with a lack of small narrow body lift. Buying a few A319s and outfitting them like sardine cans, or pushing up to their RJ limit, does not fundamentally alter the issues that UA has.