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United Polaris - New Business Class seats & inflight service {Archive}

United Polaris - New Business Class seats & inflight service {Archive}

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Archive thread -- Active thread is United Polaris - New Business Class seats & inflight service -- 3+ years after Intro

United website - Explore: http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris-business-class/p/1
from UA's Facebook stream
Only customers traveling in United Polaris business class or United Polaris Global First on international flights and customers in Star Alliance international first or business class cabins on flights longer than six hours will have access to the United Polaris Lounge.
Official Polaris Lounge Access Rules are here: Polaris Lounge Access Rules

United Polaris Business and Polaris First pax may access the Polaris lounge at connecting airports and their final destination within 24 hours of departure or arrival.

*A international J and F pax may only access the Polaris lounge at the departure airport. For purposes of Polaris lounge access, Canada, the Caribbean, Central America, and Guam are excluded from the definition of "international."

Seat Chart.

Press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300278706.html

NEW YORK, June 2, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- With the aspiration of making weary business travel a relic of the past, United Airlines today unveiled its all-new United Polaris business class, the airline's most significant product transformation in more than a decade, featuring a reimagined, sleep-enhancing, departure-to-landing experience for intercontinental travelers.

Named after the North Star, United Polaris is the shining new star of business class travel that flyers can turn to for a tranquil and restful journey.

"United Polaris will change the game in international business travel with an exceptional level of relaxation and comfort throughout our customers' journeys," said Oscar Munoz, president and CEO of United. "This completely reconceived experience exemplifies the new spirit of United and the innovation, excitement and operational momentum across our airline."

Path-Breaking Design

In setting out to create a transformative business class experience, United chose to outfit its widebody fleet with a custom-designed, exclusive-to-United seat, rather than select an option already in the marketplace. Designed in partnership with Acumen Design Associates and PriestmanGoode and manufactured by Zodiac Seats United Kingdom, each United Polaris seat will offer direct access to the aisle, 180-degree flat-bed recline and up to 6 foot 6 inches of bed space.

Crafted as individual, forward-facing, suite-like pods, each customer's personal suite will feature a "Do Not Disturb" sign, mood lighting, one-touch lumbar support, several storage areas, multiple surfaces for simultaneous working and dining, a 16-inch high-definition entertainment screen and, for seats in the center of the cabin, electronic privacy dividers. Complementing the new seats, United and PriestmanGoode have also conceived an all-new look for the United Polaris cabins.

In rethinking the international business class experience, United conducted more than 12,000 hours of research, and sleep emerged as the single most important priority for international business class travelers. United Polaris' path-breaking design and sleep-enhancing focus was inspired and informed by insights from hundreds of customers and employees, inflight product simulations and more than 100 product evaluations.

Sleep-Enticing Amenities

In addition to the sleep-enticing United Polaris personal suites, several other amenities were designed with our customers' sleep in mind.

In a first-of-its-kind partnership, United has worked with leading luxury specialty store Saks Fifth Avenue for custom-designed bedding. All designed to provide the best sleep in the sky, the new bedding collection will feature plush duvets, lightweight day-blankets and a large and small pillow for each United Polaris customer. In addition, mattress cushions will be available upon request.

Slippers will be available on all flights, and customized United Polaris pajamas will be available by request on flights longer than 12 hours**. Flyers will also be able to request a gel-cooled pillow. New amenity kits will feature ergonomically designed eye shades, calming lavender pillow mist and additional products from Soho House & Co.'s Cowshed Spa.

With the introduction of United Polaris, the airline intends to donate tens of thousands of pillows, blankets and other inflight service items to Fisher House Foundation, which United and its employees have long supported.

Elevated Dining Experience

Upon boarding their flight, each United Polaris customer will be welcomed with a pre-departure beverage of his or her choice and gourmet chocolate. While in the air, customers will enjoy regionally influenced in-flight menus updated seasonally, developed in partnership with The Trotter Project and its critically recognized chefs, including Bill Kim of acclaimed Chicago restaurants Urbanbelly, bellyQ and Belly Shack.

The airline will offer an upgraded wine experience, with the highest-quality options curated exclusively by United's Master Sommelier. Inflight service will also include made-to-order signature ice cream sundaes, a dessert cart with a variety of petit dessert options, chocolate truffles and wine flights. On daytime flights longer than eight hours and on all flights longer than 12 hours, hot mid-flight snacks such as lobster macaroni and cheese will be available.

Raising The Bar With United Polaris Business Class Lounges

United will also open an exclusive portfolio of United Polaris business class lounges in nine locations around the world the only lounge of its kind offered by a U.S. airline to business class customers that will feature custom-designed chairs, private daybeds, spa-like showers and chef-inspired hot meals served in a boutique restaurant setting so customers can refresh and dine before boarding their planes. Premium sparkling wines and spirits, refreshing snacks and bottled water will also be offered.

The first new United Polaris lounge will open at Chicago O'Hare International Airport on Dec. 1, 2016. Lounges in eight other locations Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, New York/Newark, Washington Dulles, Tokyo Narita, Hong Kong and London Heathrow will follow in 2017.

United Polaris Introduction

United will begin to introduce United Polaris on Dec. 1, 2016, with the new inflight food and beverage experience, new custom bedding from Saks Fifth Avenue, new amenity kits and the new United Polaris lounge in Chicago. The United Polaris business class seat will first take flight in December on Boeing 777-300ER aircraft and subsequently on Boeing 787-10 and Airbus A350-1000 aircraft, as well as on Boeing 767-300 and 777-200 retrofits.

United Polaris will serve business class customers flying the U.S. airline industry's most global route network, reaching more than 330 destinations in more than 50 countries.

More information on the United Polaris business class can be found at united.com/Polaris.

[From [email][email protected] 11/15/2016]
Starting December 1, 2016, United Polaris Business Class service will replace United BusinessFirst service on international flights, and United Polaris Global First service will replace the current United Global First service.

Between 2017 to 2019 eight additional United Polaris lounges will open at EWR, HKG, IAD, IAH, LAX, LHR, NRT and SFO. We do not have the exact opening dates at this time. A scheduling announcement will be forthcoming.
** Flights with pajama service (for both directions)
SFO - ICN, PEK, PVG, HGH, XIV, TPE, AKL, HKG, CTU, SYD, TLV, SIN
EWR - NRT, PEK, DEL, BOM, HKG, PVG
ORD - NRT, PEK PVG, HKG
LAX - PVG, SYD, MEL, SIN
IAD - NRT, PEK
IAH - NRT, SYD
(from United Twitter feed https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyjFHZLW...jpg&name=large

{Similar Threads:
Polaris Lounge Roadmap 2017-2018 (wiki) (thread)
Polaris lounge ORD - opened 01 Dec 2016 (wiki) (thread)
SFO Lounge changes? Which will become Polaris? Shower options?(wiki) (thread)
United Polaris-New Business Class seats & inflight service and new Polaris Lounges(wiki) (thread)}


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Old Aug 22, 16, 9:28 pm
  #1426  
 
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Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
Therein lies the problem. IF it is a dud, UA is stuck with it and the image of it, for what, at least 2 years until they can fix it? At that point they will be more than a seat generation behind.
This is why you actually focus group the seat before committing to it. And given the comments that have been made by FTers who attended the event (which I copied above) it does not look good. They can be summed up as "its better than what you have now, but at best compairable to what others are offering now, with some major issues, and nothing that stands out."

This said, I give the current management team props in that they are now crab-walking if they roll this out to the 787/763s, which says they are aware of the issues this seat - created under Jeff - present.

If I had to put money on this, I think we see this seat in the 777, but then United realizing it is not enough, and knowing making it smaller will not fly (as they would have to), will come up with something else for the A350 and to retrofit the 787 and 763s. You heard it hear first....

Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
We should probably wait until a decent cross-section of customers have tried out the new seat on a real flight until deciding if it's a real dud, second fiddle to Delta's new product, or perhaps something pretty good.
This is the point of doing market testing, BEFORE making a decision. United instead went with this seat, and then did a marking roll-out to elites. So far (see the comments) it has not gotten rave reviews. This is a major investment and if it does not work out, will cause real damage to United, damage that United can't afford at this point where it is already trailing badly in revenue. I don't blame Oscar for this, this project was a cheapo-top down Jeffed-up special, but that UA's product people are as several posters noted "nervous" about what they are doing, is not a good sign.

Originally Posted by NoLaGent View Post
To be fair, that's wildly inaccurate. I have a friend who was on the 767 charter from Chicago to Honolulu and they also did ground simulations out of Newark, if I remember correctly.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ess-class.html

There were countless focus groups and has been mentioned many times in this thread, this is what won. Where the bar was set is anybody's guess, but I think it's got great potential. The Delta announcement definitely sucked some wind out of Polaris' sails, tho.
I read that thread, and have paid attention. United did research on soft product in what you quoted from, but I read the threads (one) on hard product (with NDA) and no sign that they did detailed research on this seat.

But there is a gem in the thread:

"UA has every incentive to provide a biz class seat that blows Delta's mixed bag out of the water. And may well leapfrog the AA / CX seat."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23434192-post43.html and the prescient reply:

"I don't know who you are kidding, this management team is not interested in leading product, hard or soft. Check out the new Y seats, check out the no-IFE or power, check out the worst Domestic F soft product (by a lot), check out bad international soft product, especially booze. Fly GF, get fresh-brew coffee. Need I say more.

Their target market is corporate accounts that want the cheapest price (and get a 40% or more discount) and suckers who don't know better than not to book United.

I assume they have already picked something for the A350, and this (like with the Airbus seats that were so bad) they are just showing it off to make them all feel how smart they are, perhaps looking at one or two slight configuration changes."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23435118-post57.html

Botton line, no indication this seat was looked at, and the feedback posted by FTers was not exactly great about what UA was offering. Sort of like what they rolled-out. The entire thread I posted two entries from is worth reading (after page 4) the people who attended called what we are seeing now...
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Old Aug 22, 16, 10:39 pm
  #1427  
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
...
This is the point of doing market testing, BEFORE making a decision. United instead went with this seat, and then did a marking roll-out to elites. So far (see the comments) it has not gotten rave reviews. This is a major investment and if it does not work out, will cause real damage to United, damage that United can't afford at this point where it is already trailing badly in revenue. I don't blame Oscar for this, this project was a cheapo-top down Jeffed-up special, but that UA's product people are as several posters noted "nervous" about what they are doing, is not a good sign....
I have to think they did some market research and focus groups before selecting the final seat design - the question is who did they do this research with? I can't recall if anyone from our community was involved, although they might be under a NDA if they were.

Unfortunately the ship has probably sailed on this one - while they can tweak the food, they can't tweak the seat at this point without a major delay in the rollout which would blunt any impact on the market, and substantial cost - what could they do now, cancel the seat order and go after the new DL seats? I don't think even Oscar has the guts to do that, even if the market wanted the change - even if this was Smisek's choice, today's management would look like fools if they tried to change the seat at this point.

Either way, Polaris is better than any variant of BF, so it's not like we're going backwards - the only problem is the potential for the competition leapfrogging too far ahead, although with ongoing softening in business travel, a cloudy global economic lookout, extreme risk in China, and uncertainty in Europe, will there really be enough paying customers left to even care?
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Old Aug 22, 16, 10:49 pm
  #1428  
 
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Let's complete that thought:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23442351-post71.html

"It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs."

Polaris is a better product than the current Vantage / Zodiac DL setup on the 777, 767, 747. As for the A330 Cirrus...you'll have to take a poll - certainly beats on finish.

But what I was imagining was this:

http://www.jal.co.jp/en/inter/servic.../skysuite.html

Which ironically is a denser config, but my favorite biz class seat for sleeping. Ultimately JAL decided it wasn't good enough for the 777.

I give 60% chance the 787 sees a different seat. 767 too far along for the dozen or so still in pmUA config - those are happening - and in Polaris well ahead of any other 767 config.

Meanwhile AA is putting 30 seats in the A zone of a 789 - which is exactly what UA has in there today. Take a look at the seat map starting Nov 4 on DFW-MAD.

UA will do just fine with the 787 when it reconfigs with that as the baseline.
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Old Aug 22, 16, 10:53 pm
  #1429  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I have to think they did some market research and focus groups before selecting the final seat design - the question is who did they do this research with? I can't recall if anyone from our community was involved, although they might be under a NDA if they were.
Yes, rely on facts, not hyperbole. Here are some:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23439769-post60.html

"Went to the event today. UA showed us several BF seat mockups at various stages of advancement.

I thought one stood out (as in stood out compared to the other seats presented or in operation today and not stood out compared to what is offered by global competitors)."

Also noted in the UA FAQ:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...laris-FAQ.aspx

"Through many focus groups and hours of on-the-ground and inflight product simulations, including overnight sleep tests for the new United Polaris seats, we tested a wide variety of product and service offerings and received feedback on what worked and what didn't."

I spoke to customers at the rollout event who did overnight testing. The seat frames were in place with Polaris dimensions. I don't think they had finishes installed - but they did test the sleep comfort in the flat position.


Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Unfortunately the ship has probably sailed on this one - while they can tweak the food, they can't tweak the seat at this point without a major delay in the rollout which would blunt any impact on the market, and substantial cost - what could they do now, cancel the seat order and go after the new DL seats? I don't think even Oscar has the guts to do that, even if the market wanted the change - even if this was Smisek's choice, today's management would look like fools if they tried to change the seat at this point.

Either way, Polaris is better than any variant of BF, so it's not like we're going backwards - the only problem is the potential for the competition leapfrogging too far ahead, although with ongoing softening in business travel, a cloudy global economic lookout, extreme risk in China, and uncertainty in Europe, will there really be enough paying customers left to even care?
They have the approx. 50 or so on the lot 787s to play with that don't yet have a final spec and appear last in line.

But if the 'leapfrog' is a door on a 1" wider seat...the differences in seat generations are compressing in the way iPhone release differences are.

I think the bigger question is what you raise - the proper footprint of premium seats. As a human being I appreciate UA's optimism. As someone pragmatic...well...UA has always seemed to have a surplus of premium seats.

Last edited by cerealmarketer; Aug 22, 16 at 10:59 pm
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Old Aug 22, 16, 11:45 pm
  #1430  
 
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Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
Let's complete that thought:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23442351-post71.html

"It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs."

Polaris is a better product than the current Vantage / Zodiac DL setup on the 777, 767, 747. As for the A330 Cirrus...you'll have to take a poll - certainly beats on finish.
August 2014, Delta's seats on the 777/747/330 were as nice as, and I might argue since they are less cramped, better than, the Polaris seat. August 2014 AA had announced it was going with Zodiac on its new planes. So if you meant "installs" then Polaris did not beat on most DL planes what was already installed, and would not be as nice as what AA had announced. I believe you suggested - correctly - UA needed a seat that was better than the competition. We can all change our views, but I think you were correct in August 2014.


Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
I give 60% chance the 787 sees a different seat. 767 too far along for the dozen or so still in pmUA config - those are happening - and in Polaris well ahead of any other 767 config.

Meanwhile AA is putting 30 seats in the A zone of a 789 - which is exactly what UA has in there today. Take a look at the seat map starting Nov 4 on DFW-MAD.

UA will do just fine with the 787 when it reconfigs with that as the baseline.
Polaris if they add it to the new 767 configs will be a great improvement, and given the routes these planes fly (max 9-10 hours) I see no issues with it, its competitive with what DL has, and I don't recall that AA is retrofiting its non-777 A/C at this point. I also doubt they spend the cap-x to retrofit this into the 763s with the sCO seats.

I put enough trust in Oscar's team to believe the chance we see this Polaris design, which would require about a 21.5" seat, in the 787 at slim to none. Jeff and Rainy would have done it, but I think Oscar knows better... AA's seat is already better than what UA has on this bird, and DL will put in a seat that laps Polaris when they get the 787, plus Delta will fly its A350 with the Vantage XL+ on the same type of routes UA is using the 787.

Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
I spoke to customers at the rollout event who did overnight testing. The seat frames were in place with Polaris dimensions. I don't think they had finishes installed - but they did test the sleep comfort in the flat position.
No one in that thread described a polaris like config (one seat offset, very tight), but if you talked to someone who actually saw that config, with the footwell size and all, then they did more than it appeared they did to me.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 8:30 am
  #1431  
 
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
No one in that thread described a polaris like config (one seat offset, very tight), but if you talked to someone who actually saw that config, with the footwell size and all, then they did more than it appeared they did to me.
Nobody in that thread could describe the Polaris configuration even if they wanted to, as any participant was required to sign an NDA and you can rest assured United lurkers knew exactly which FTers were "in" on the demo.

I sat in the aisle seat with size 12 dress shoes, and found the footwell to be adequate. With shoes off, I am rather confident my 6'2"/220 frame will be able to sleep comfortably. The footwell is better than IPTE and way better than non-bulkhead sCO Diamond.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 10:00 am
  #1432  
 
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
August 2014, Delta's seats on the 777/747/330 were as nice as, and I might argue since they are less cramped, better than, the Polaris seat. August 2014 AA had announced it was going with Zodiac on its new planes. So if you meant "installs" then Polaris did not beat on most DL planes what was already installed, and would not be as nice as what AA had announced. I believe you suggested - correctly - UA needed a seat that was better than the competition. We can all change our views, but I think you were correct in August 2014.




Polaris if they add it to the new 767 configs will be a great improvement, and given the routes these planes fly (max 9-10 hours) I see no issues with it, its competitive with what DL has, and I don't recall that AA is retrofiting its non-777 A/C at this point. I also doubt they spend the cap-x to retrofit this into the 763s with the sCO seats.

I put enough trust in Oscar's team to believe the chance we see this Polaris design, which would require about a 21.5" seat, in the 787 at slim to none. Jeff and Rainy would have done it, but I think Oscar knows better... AA's seat is already better than what UA has on this bird, and DL will put in a seat that laps Polaris when they get the 787, plus Delta will fly its A350 with the Vantage XL+ on the same type of routes UA is using the 787.



No one in that thread described a polaris like config (one seat offset, very tight), but if you talked to someone who actually saw that config, with the footwell size and all, then they did more than it appeared they did to me.

The overnight testing happened last year, not in 2014 - which was viewing of prototypes. Different events.

What overnight testing has DL and AA done with its new products in the last year?

Lovely footwell there in the Vantage XL....the 'width' in that product is a marketing gimmick to gloss over that when your feet get into bed mode you're in a coffin thanks to the tight pitch and no angle away (Vantage XL is about a little extra width for wider airframes, not about better pitch).

It's still a Vantage - which is regularly deried by Delta fliers as sleeping in your own coffin.

767-400 Delta One Review - Like Sleeping in Your Own Coffin


Last edited by cerealmarketer; Aug 23, 16 at 10:09 am
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Old Aug 23, 16, 11:05 am
  #1433  
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
Nobody in that thread could describe the Polaris configuration even if they wanted to, as any participant was required to sign an NDA and you can rest assured United lurkers knew exactly which FTers were "in" on the demo.

I sat in the aisle seat with size 12 dress shoes, and found the footwell to be adequate. With shoes off, I am rather confident my 6'2"/220 frame will be able to sleep comfortably. The footwell is better than IPTE and way better than non-bulkhead sCO Diamond.
Did you try a Polaris bulkhead or Polaris non-bulkhead?
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Old Aug 23, 16, 11:07 am
  #1434  
 
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Originally Posted by djsflynn View Post
That the Polaris Lounges will be restricted to Polaris/business class passengers, and exclude frequent flyers (including United's own MP members) travelling in economy, should help keep numbers down...
I hope they find a way to make the Polaris lounges nice, but I find it hard to believe they can keep anything competitive with me having eggs benedict with maybe a dozen people before catching a flight ex-LHR. Hard to see how they will incentivize GS after this roll out. GFL access was huge. Upgrading to F was nice. Cutting the EWR security lines is huge so that will stay I guess, but overall Polaris will be a big blow to GS status for me.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 11:16 am
  #1435  
 
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Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Did you try a Polaris bulkhead or Polaris non-bulkhead?
I tried a Polaris bulkhead center seat, the footwell was spacious but it was acknowledged that the non-bulkhead center/window seat footwells are slightly smaller. Didn't get to try one out because the seat unit doesn't have a corresponding chair for the non-bulkhead center seat. I was able to look at the non-bulkhead center footwell, though, and it did not seem to be much different than the bulkhead center seats upon visual inspection. I am only relaying what the contract rep told me with respect to the dimensions of those seats. Importantly, the non-bulkhead center/window footwell is square, not triangular like the current seats.

However, I tried the aisle seats (angled) and was pleasantly surprised by the foot space. My expectations turned out to be worse than reality. That's what I was referencing in the quoted post.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 1:07 pm
  #1436  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
I sat in the aisle seat with size 12 dress shoes, and found the footwell to be adequate. With shoes off, I am rather confident my 6'2"/220 frame will be able to sleep comfortably. The footwell is better than IPTE and way better than non-bulkhead sCO Diamond.
That is good news, the footwell was the downfall of the sCO Diamond, particularly on the 763.

Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post

What overnight testing has DL and AA done with its new products in the last year?
I don't really understand what point you are trying to make. Both DL and AA bought off the rack seats, they have been extensively tested, and installed on OALs. Its very different than a new proprietary design, which requires far more careful pre-purchase testing, and where they look like they are trying to get feedback on only now, as its rolling out.

Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
Lovely footwell there in the Vantage XL....the 'width' in that product is a marketing gimmick to gloss over that when your feet get into bed mode you're in a coffin thanks to the tight pitch and no angle away (Vantage XL is about a little extra width for wider airframes, not about better pitch).

It's still a Vantage - which is regularly deried by Delta fliers as sleeping in your own coffin.

767-400 Delta One Review - Like Sleeping in Your Own Coffin

Wow, just wow. You post a picture of the much smaller vantage (which is NOT the Vantage XL+, or even the Vantage XL) and in its smallest version (on the 763). I think you know that this has little to nothing to do with the Vantage XL+, and those shoes are awful... I have ridden in the Vantage lots (and if you have flown SFO/LAX-JFK or DL from JFK-Europe, you have too, it has its issues, but its a far different seat than Delta is putting on the 777/350.

But to make it clearer, here is a nice schematic by Thompson, which shows what the footwell looks like flat (note this is their F+J set up, but the footwell is the same on the J only set up), its far, far, far different than what you tried to claim:



The Vantage XL is currently being used by SAS (in a slightly narrower 330/340 config) and the reviews have been uniformally good on the seat, there is nothing wrong with it, let alone the footwell size. The only "advantage" polaris has is that as EWR764 pointed out, the percentage of your body in the tunnel is slightly greater on the Vantage XL+ by a little bit than on Polaris, but neither are open like some seats.


Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
I tried a Polaris bulkhead center seat, the footwell was spacious but it was acknowledged that the non-bulkhead center/window seat footwells are slightly smaller. Didn't get to try one out because the seat unit doesn't have a corresponding chair for the non-bulkhead center seat. I was able to look at the non-bulkhead center footwell, though, and it did not seem to be much different than the bulkhead center seats upon visual inspection. I am only relaying what the contract rep told me with respect to the dimensions of those seats. Importantly, the non-bulkhead center/window footwell is square, not triangular like the current seats.

However, I tried the aisle seats (angled) and was pleasantly surprised by the foot space. My expectations turned out to be worse than reality. That's what I was referencing in the quoted post.
If you tried the isle non-bulkhead and it was fine for you at size 12, 6'2" and 220 then It will work. It looks really narrow given how it tapers, but if it is not an issue, then great.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 1:49 pm
  #1437  
 
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
If you tried the isle non-bulkhead and it was fine for you at size 12, 6'2" and 220 then It will work. It looks really narrow given how it tapers, but if it is not an issue, then great.
Yes. It tapers, and it is definitely smaller than the center/window seat footwells, but if your point of reference is a 757/767 sCO Diamond seat, then I would posit that the Polaris non-bulkhead aisle footwell is probably about 2x the surface area, taller and slightly deeper than those. The footwell is also substantially larger than the sCO 777 or 787 non-bulkhead footwells, but those are already bigger than the 757/767 seats. The bed in all seats is considerably longer, with more space around the head in full recline position.

You know, the more I think about it, the Polaris seat really is just a highly-evolved love child of the Diamond and IPTE seats!
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Old Aug 23, 16, 2:06 pm
  #1438  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
Yes. It tapers, and it is definitely smaller than the center/window seat footwells, but if your point of reference is a 757/767 sCO Diamond seat, then I would posit that the Polaris non-bulkhead aisle footwell is probably about 2x the surface area, taller and slightly deeper than those. The footwell is also substantially larger than the sCO 777 or 787 non-bulkhead footwells, but those are already bigger than the 757/767 seats. The bed in all seats is considerably longer, with more space around the head in full recline position.
Always appreciate your detailed eye If so, then they addressed a major problem with the sCO seat. ^

Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
You know, the more I think about it, the Polaris seat really is just a highly-evolved love child of the Diamond and IPTE seats!
This is giving me a hard to get out of my head vision of a slightly bigger seat wrapped in nasty 10 year old polyester fabric...
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Old Aug 23, 16, 2:56 pm
  #1439  
 
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post

Wow, just wow. You post a picture of the much smaller vantage (which is NOT the Vantage XL+, or even the Vantage XL) and in its smallest version (on the 763). I think you know that this has little to nothing to do with the Vantage XL+, and those shoes are awful... I have ridden in the Vantage lots (and if you have flown SFO/LAX-JFK or DL from JFK-Europe, you have too, it has its issues, but its a far different seat than Delta is putting on the 777/350.


The Vantage XL is currently being used by SAS (in a slightly narrower 330/340 config) and the reviews have been uniformally good on the seat, there is nothing wrong with it, let alone the footwell size. The only "advantage" polaris has is that as EWR764 pointed out, the percentage of your body in the tunnel is slightly greater on the Vantage XL+ by a little bit than on Polaris, but neither are open like some seats.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but that photo which you say is of the 'smaller' 767 Delta Vantage is actually from this page:

http://thepointsguy.com/2016/07/sas-...-class-review/

A review of the new SAS business class on an A330.

I didn't reference it to see how bias would play out, which it did.

So now we're going to say that's a big roomy footwell....(cough)
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Old Aug 23, 16, 3:01 pm
  #1440  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post

You know, the more I think about it, the Polaris seat really is just a highly-evolved love child of the Diamond and IPTE seats!
Is the length of the Polaris similar, or more than the IPTE C seats? I'm also 6'2" and about 210lbs, slim fit build, so while the IPTE seats were never too narrow for me, it's the long length, and the open nature of the seats where my legs fit, that always had me love them. I am size 12 shoe and never had problems with the triangular footrest (which is about 2x the size of the Diamond seats). The 67I premium seats are great and I'm sad to see them go.

All of the sCO Diamond seats, save for bulkheads, were ridiculously short. Polaris already compromises on the open leg qualities IPTE, and if that's combined with compromised length versus downstairs 747 and 2-4-2 777 I'm going to loose it. As if losing the F suites wasn't enough...!
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