Saver Biz (I) vs Econ and miles upgrade (PZ)
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: UA S, Marriott Gold (UA), Hertz PC (UA), HH Gold (cc), Avis PP, National EC Executive
Posts: 280
When (if ever) does waitlisted IN / I get a business class seat before a waitlisted PN / PZ? Do you have to wait until you're at the airport to get the PR-1 status? But by that point, an upgrade sweep might already have run and given the waitlisted seat to someone with an instrument for PN or PZ.
In general, when looking at fare classes is the following generally correct? (e.g. for international Econ -> Biz or Biz direct booking).
Z >= ZN >= P >= PN >> PZ >> (generally much grater) IN >= I (Has anyone ever seen this not hold up, in more than a trivial I >= IN case?)
1) I want to confirm that it's generally (always?) easier to book an econ ticket with $$ and then upgrade to biz with miles than it is to book directly into I / IN?
2) Confirming that high PN close to a flight is a good indication that PZ may open up later? (But on the other hand, high PZ is not necessarily an indication that IN will open up).
3) In general, if you're on a waitlisted saver biz (IN), are you more or less likely than a waitlisted PZ to get the seat?
In general, when looking at fare classes is the following generally correct? (e.g. for international Econ -> Biz or Biz direct booking).
Z >= ZN >= P >= PN >> PZ >> (generally much grater) IN >= I (Has anyone ever seen this not hold up, in more than a trivial I >= IN case?)
1) I want to confirm that it's generally (always?) easier to book an econ ticket with $$ and then upgrade to biz with miles than it is to book directly into I / IN?
2) Confirming that high PN close to a flight is a good indication that PZ may open up later? (But on the other hand, high PZ is not necessarily an indication that IN will open up).
3) In general, if you're on a waitlisted saver biz (IN), are you more or less likely than a waitlisted PZ to get the seat?
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 27, 2019 at 3:19 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
#2
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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In general, when looking at fare classes is the following generally correct? (e.g. for international Econ -> Biz or Biz direct booking).
Z >= ZN >= P >= PN >> PZ >> (generally much grater) IN >= I (Has anyone ever seen this not hold up, in more than a trivial I >= IN case?) ...
Z >= ZN >= P >= PN >> PZ >> (generally much grater) IN >= I (Has anyone ever seen this not hold up, in more than a trivial I >= IN case?) ...
Less likely would be my speculation
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
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Waitlisted I/IN is treated as displaced premium pax at the airport and will clear ahead of PN/PZ ... before then, PZ/PN will clear ahead of I/IN. I'd recommend to check in at T-24 when waitlisted for I/IN since this seems to trigger the change.
#5
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Delaware
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Posts: 1,393
I never knew that you could waitlist for I/IN. How does this work? Do you still pay for a coach seat with either miles or money and get a full refund on the coach seat if your upgrade clears?
#6
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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If you have a mixed-cabin award -- e.g., domestic economy saver, international business saver -- you can waitlist the domestic segments for no additional miles, but you also won't get a refund if the waitlist fails to clear.
#7
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I really don't think that this is the case. It may have been true several years ago, but I don't think it's true now. There are just too many counterexamples. I believe that I/IN and PN/PZ are now treated equivalently -- it's just going by status. Now, if you're looking at a CPU-eligible flight, I/IN will be near the top of the waitlist because it's ahead of non-GS CPU. But for a non-CPU eligible flight, there's just not really any reason to believe that this is the case.
Can't tell you the limitations, but in my experience the IN waitlist after check-in has put pax ahead for PZ waitlist. Frankly, that makes some sense because you have paid for IN and you are waiting for a seat ... but that is open to interpretation.
#8
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Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
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In general, when looking at fare classes is the following generally correct? (e.g. for international Econ -> Biz or Biz direct booking).
Z >= ZN >= P >= PN >> PZ >> (generally much grater) IN >= I (Has anyone ever seen this not hold up, in more than a trivial I >= IN case?)
Z >= ZN >= P >= PN >> PZ >> (generally much grater) IN >= I (Has anyone ever seen this not hold up, in more than a trivial I >= IN case?)
(a) Unless you wait for PZ space at booking, you will lock yourself into a particular flight and may be forced to fly in Economy; if you book a Business award you won't have the issue (unless you book Economy and waitlist)
(b) You can route Business awards overwater on partner metal; you usually can't do this with an MUA except for exorbitant rates
(c) Even at 2 cpm, buying Economy and using an MUA is usually substantially more expensive than booking a Business award; for US to Europe you're looking at either 40k miles (the balance) or $550 plus an Economy fare. A $250 h/r/t fare is breakeven at the relatively rich valuation of 2 cpm. If your Economy ticket is at W or S rates, you're paying far more for miles+cash.
Substantially less likely. I tend to agree with jsloan that waitlisted IN segments, when handled correctly by the computer, list you in pari passu with the PZ waitlists - that is, mixed in by status and underlying fare. We still have insufficient data to prove this though. Before the gate, you are going to be behind both PZ waitlists and (usually) CPUs as well.
#9
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,400
Trust me, I know this didn't used to be the case and you needed to convince a GA to put you on the priority list. Since about a year ago this has changed. Multiple experiences with my MIL flying on my miles w/ IN waitlisted. She has zero status on UA ... once she was checked in she was each each time either #1 or #2 on the list, often ahead of 40+
It doesn't make any sense for the priority to reverse itself at T-24. PZ is "ahead" of IN in the inventory pecking order, so to speak -- and, in fact, if they open PZ within T-24, people can continue to clear upgrades (ahead of someone waitlisted for IN) from the invisible list until the flight goes to gate control.
I contend that what you're seeing is further evidence that the gate list is sometimes being prioritized incorrectly, as opposed to proof that IN waitlists are supposed to be ahead of PZ waitlists at the gate.