Early arrival - gate is occupied
May 19, 2019, 5:27 pm
#76
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,357
Same problem with late night arrivals at DCA on Alaska transcons (particularly the last flight, from SEA). GA is nowhere to be found when the plane approaches the gate, so we wait and wait and wait for the GA to operate the jetbridge. Too bad the pilots can't operate the jetbridge by remote control from the aircraft!
May 19, 2019, 5:57 pm
#77
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: TPA for now. Hopefully LIS for retirement
Posts: 13,702
I used to be a 1K-type on UA years ago and waiting for gates, either due to it being occupied by an outbound or because the jetway driver person wasn't there, happened all the time. I never thought much of it other than that was airline business as usual.
Until the last few years when I have flown mostly Southwest, where it hardly ever happens. (I was going to say NEVER, but that is not quite true; I can remember one or two times over the past maybe 8-10 years.) Recently I found myself reflecting on the UA days and wondering what the difference operationally is. On WN, the gate is available, the plane pulls in and stops, the jetway immediately begins moving to the plane, and I am on my way.
Why is it so hard for UA to do this???
(ETA: I will always have a soft spot for UA because I used to work for them and so tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I get that UA's operations are inherently more complex than WN's, and I am trying to compare apples to apples in terms of domestic narrowbody to domestic narrowbody, but still . . . )
Until the last few years when I have flown mostly Southwest, where it hardly ever happens. (I was going to say NEVER, but that is not quite true; I can remember one or two times over the past maybe 8-10 years.) Recently I found myself reflecting on the UA days and wondering what the difference operationally is. On WN, the gate is available, the plane pulls in and stops, the jetway immediately begins moving to the plane, and I am on my way.
Why is it so hard for UA to do this???
(ETA: I will always have a soft spot for UA because I used to work for them and so tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I get that UA's operations are inherently more complex than WN's, and I am trying to compare apples to apples in terms of domestic narrowbody to domestic narrowbody, but still . . . )
May 19, 2019, 6:09 pm
#78
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Yesterday, we have arrived at ORD, 40-45 minutes ahead of schedule on LO1. When we had arrived, we have taxied about 10-15 minutes and then waited 30-35 mins for a gate in concourse M to open up. The reason was simple, the MU flight that needed to depart at 14:50 (2:50 PM), pushed back at 15:40 (3:40 PM) and because of that we had arrived at our parking position 15 minutes after scheduled arrival time despite arriving that early. Most of the passengers were not-USA based passengers and wasn't used to see a situation like this. And, the immigration lines... I was out of the terminal at 16:30 (4:30 PM), literally 1 hour 45 minutes after we landed.
Another funny point, a Finnair aircraft which had landed after us, got a space immediately while we were waiting with a RJ and an EK aircraft.
However, I think that this issue, generally, is related to the airport and terminal managements' themselves.
1- In most USA airports, they don't use remote stands. In case of 15min+ gate waiting times, no-one would like to sit on a seat where no phone signal is present and where you can't even go to the toilet.
2- Also in ORD ( actually it applies for most USA airports ), I don't understand the logic of UA, AA, NH, LH, IB, JL, NK aircrafts parking to Terminal 5 only to drop their passengers to the immigration hall and remove their baggage and then towed to their departure terminal. For convenience to the passengers, other passengers wait around an hour for a gate. Some buses and some stairs would simply solve the situation. For example, A LH aircraft arriving from MUC could park at Terminal 1 and the passengers could be bussed to the immigration hall keeping the Terminal 5 gates empty.
So, my advise to USA airport managements': Don't be stingy and buy some stairs and buses. Maybe some apron elevators for mobility pax as well.
Another funny point, a Finnair aircraft which had landed after us, got a space immediately while we were waiting with a RJ and an EK aircraft.
However, I think that this issue, generally, is related to the airport and terminal managements' themselves.
1- In most USA airports, they don't use remote stands. In case of 15min+ gate waiting times, no-one would like to sit on a seat where no phone signal is present and where you can't even go to the toilet.
2- Also in ORD ( actually it applies for most USA airports ), I don't understand the logic of UA, AA, NH, LH, IB, JL, NK aircrafts parking to Terminal 5 only to drop their passengers to the immigration hall and remove their baggage and then towed to their departure terminal. For convenience to the passengers, other passengers wait around an hour for a gate. Some buses and some stairs would simply solve the situation. For example, A LH aircraft arriving from MUC could park at Terminal 1 and the passengers could be bussed to the immigration hall keeping the Terminal 5 gates empty.
So, my advise to USA airport managements': Don't be stingy and buy some stairs and buses. Maybe some apron elevators for mobility pax as well.
Without operational exceptions, schedules for international arrivals and subsequent departures have built in more than sufficient padding, even with the drop off and the tow.
Having stairs and buses really don't solve the main issue at hand - overcapacity.
There are phone signals on runway/taxiway.
Last edited by Repooc17; May 19, 2019 at 6:15 pm
May 19, 2019, 7:06 pm
#79
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,125
Yesterday, we have arrived at ORD, 40-45 minutes ahead of schedule on LO1. When we had arrived, we have taxied about 10-15 minutes and then waited 30-35 mins for a gate in concourse M to open up. The reason was simple, the MU flight that needed to depart at 14:50 (2:50 PM), pushed back at 15:40 (3:40 PM) and because of that we had arrived at our parking position 15 minutes after scheduled arrival time despite arriving that early. Most of the passengers were not-USA based passengers and wasn't used to see a situation like this. And, the immigration lines... I was out of the terminal at 16:30 (4:30 PM), literally 1 hour 45 minutes after we landed.
Another funny point, a Finnair aircraft which had landed after us, got a space immediately while we were waiting with a RJ and an EK aircraft.
However, I think that this issue, generally, is related to the airport and terminal managements' themselves.
1- In most USA airports, they don't use remote stands. In case of 15min+ gate waiting times, no-one would like to sit on a seat where no phone signal is present and where you can't even go to the toilet.
2- Also in ORD ( actually it applies for most USA airports ), I don't understand the logic of UA, AA, NH, LH, IB, JL, NK aircrafts parking to Terminal 5 only to drop their passengers to the immigration hall and remove their baggage and then towed to their departure terminal. For convenience to the passengers, other passengers wait around an hour for a gate. Some buses and some stairs would simply solve the situation. For example, A LH aircraft arriving from MUC could park at Terminal 1 and the passengers could be bussed to the immigration hall keeping the Terminal 5 gates empty.
So, my advise to USA airport managements': Don't be stingy and buy some stairs and buses. Maybe some apron elevators for mobility pax as well.
Another funny point, a Finnair aircraft which had landed after us, got a space immediately while we were waiting with a RJ and an EK aircraft.
However, I think that this issue, generally, is related to the airport and terminal managements' themselves.
1- In most USA airports, they don't use remote stands. In case of 15min+ gate waiting times, no-one would like to sit on a seat where no phone signal is present and where you can't even go to the toilet.
2- Also in ORD ( actually it applies for most USA airports ), I don't understand the logic of UA, AA, NH, LH, IB, JL, NK aircrafts parking to Terminal 5 only to drop their passengers to the immigration hall and remove their baggage and then towed to their departure terminal. For convenience to the passengers, other passengers wait around an hour for a gate. Some buses and some stairs would simply solve the situation. For example, A LH aircraft arriving from MUC could park at Terminal 1 and the passengers could be bussed to the immigration hall keeping the Terminal 5 gates empty.
So, my advise to USA airport managements': Don't be stingy and buy some stairs and buses. Maybe some apron elevators for mobility pax as well.
May 19, 2019, 7:38 pm
#80
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May 19, 2019, 7:43 pm
#82
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May 19, 2019, 8:35 pm
#83
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United, American, Delta, Hyatt, Hilton, Hertz, Marriott
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Why is it so hard for UA to do this???
(ETA: I will always have a soft spot for UA because I used to work for them and so tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I get that UA's operations are inherently more complex than WN's, and I am trying to compare apples to apples in terms of domestic narrowbody to domestic narrowbody, but still . . . )
(ETA: I will always have a soft spot for UA because I used to work for them and so tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I get that UA's operations are inherently more complex than WN's, and I am trying to compare apples to apples in terms of domestic narrowbody to domestic narrowbody, but still . . . )
May 20, 2019, 1:20 am
#84
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,162
2- Also in ORD ( actually it applies for most USA airports ), I don't understand the logic of UA, AA, NH, LH, IB, JL, NK aircrafts parking to Terminal 5 only to drop their passengers to the immigration hall and remove their baggage and then towed to their departure terminal. For convenience to the passengers, other passengers wait around an hour for a gate. Some buses and some stairs would simply solve the situation. For example, A LH aircraft arriving from MUC could park at Terminal 1 and the passengers could be bussed to the immigration hall keeping the Terminal 5 gates empty.
Also, none of UA's gates (T1 / concourses B and C) are equipped to separate passenger flows as would be required to have an international arrival at the gate -- an aircraft would still have to be parked somewhere else, deplane to the ramp and then be bussed over to T5 for clearance, since if a jetway was used there's no way to assure a passenger can't bypass the formalities without a massive reconfiguration of gates and related infrastructure, or you somehow convert a few gates in the already constrained footprint of those terminals and then you're just shifting the gate availability problem from T5 to "T5 plus some part of T1"
Thus, if an international arriving flight arrived anywhere other than T5 you have to not only get passengers from wherever the aircraft sits to T5 for clearance, but you also have to get CBP officials from T5 to the aircraft to clear it and simultaneously secure the aircraft so that it can't be tampered with until it has been released back to UA -- plus a greater number of UA employees need customs seals, etc., etc.
I hate arriving INTL at ORD, especially with the people mover down, but I don't think there's such an easy solution...
May 20, 2019, 5:22 am
#85
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: UA 1K, LH FT, Marriott Plat, IHG Gold, Hertz PC, Avis PPlus
Posts: 72
Just got off 1882 arriving like 20mins early at 455am. Got out at about 6am. they apparently just changed shifts and on top of that the pilot said they had a recovery day or something like that where they send most people from the pm shift home. I probably have that wrong, but I'm also not familiar with those union rules. The bottomline is: there was nobody to handle the aircraft.
May 20, 2019, 9:59 am
#86
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,184
There is a long-term solution which includes the current expansion of T5 (they're currently working on extending the ramp to the east which will be followed by the extension of the concourse and additional of gates). Even longer term is the reconstruction of T2 which will include international arrival facilities that will allow AAL and UAL international arrivals in T2. That's going to take a while, though...
Too bad Elon can't dig a nice tunnel between T5 and T1/2/3 for a nice little air-side subway! LOL
May 20, 2019, 12:14 pm
#88
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
Amen to THAT!
- May 16, PEK-EWR
- Landed 1 hour early
- Had to wait for originally assigned gate to vacate
- That gate's plane went MX, so we waited for gate next to it
- Both gates became available at the same time
Summary: 20 minutes late!
Interestingly, Flightaware has the flight landing 1hr early, and 28 minutes early to gate, which is bogus.
- May 16, PEK-EWR
- Landed 1 hour early
- Had to wait for originally assigned gate to vacate
- That gate's plane went MX, so we waited for gate next to it
- Both gates became available at the same time
Summary: 20 minutes late!
Interestingly, Flightaware has the flight landing 1hr early, and 28 minutes early to gate, which is bogus.
May 27, 2019, 7:19 am
#89
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
Sitting on the tarmac at EWR after IAD-EWR flight landed more than 35 minutes ahead of scheduled arrival...because the gate is occupied. Blocking out 90 minutes for a 40-minute flight is asinine...!
May 27, 2019, 7:21 am
#90
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Was this one of the mainline services or you're waiting for a UX gate at Terminal A?