May 1, 2021, 4:06 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is "Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
The details:
Award travel updates
Introducing a broader range of award prices
Updates to award travel are on the horizon. For flights on or after November 15, 2019, we’ll no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for each flight.The details:
- Some award prices will be lower than what’s currently published in our chart. You may have already seen these prices, and you’ll be able to get them immediately.
- Other award prices may be higher than what you see today, especially if you’re traveling at a popular time. These prices will take effect immediately for travel November 15 or after.
- Starting November 15, we’re removing close-in fees, so you won’t be charged the extra fee of up to $75 for booking last-minute award travel.
- A flexible award travel calendar is available on united.com or in our app.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is changing?
For travel on or after November 15, we will no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for award flights. Award pricing will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors, including demand. Additionally, starting November 15, we will no longer charge a fee of up to $75 for award flights booked within 21 days of departure.When will these updates take effect?
The award pricing changes apply immediately to flights on or after November 15, 2019. Until then, award prices will be the same as or lower than what’s currently published in our award chart.How many miles will I need for award travel after November 15?
Award prices will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors. Some air awards will be available for less than what’s listed in our chart, which you may have already noticed. After November 15, award prices may also be higher, especially if you’re traveling at popular times. Use our flexible award calendar to get a monthly view of the award prices for a specific destination.Why are you making these changes?
Increasing award prices for the most in-demand flights allows us to offer better returns for our shareholders. If your award travel is flexible, these updates will help you make the most of your miles.How will these updates affect award travel availability?
United MileagePlus members with Premier® status and qualifying United Chase Cardmembers can continue to book award travel without blackout dates. For other members, most award flights that are available today will continue to be available after these updates take effect.Do the lowest-priced awards have any extra flight restrictions?
No. Our lowest priced awards do not have any added restrictions; the fare rules for all award travel apply.How can I find the lowest priced award for my travel?
The award calendar on united.com or in our app will continue to show the lowest available price for your destination.Will I earn miles on my flight if I book an award?
No. As with current award bookings, award travel in the future will not be eligible to earn miles with MileagePlus or any other loyalty program.What if I need to change my existing award?
If you need to change your award ticket, you will be issued a new ticket for which new pricing and additional fees may apply.What if I purchase a close-in award before November 15
The close-in booking fee will still apply to all tickets booked within 21 days of departure prior to November 15, 2019. We will not refund fees paid prior to November 15, even if travel occurs on or after November 15.
"Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
Jun 18, 2019, 12:13 pm
#1351
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,410
They will retain the concept of a lowest tier saver award that will book into X (economy) or I (business). While there will be no published chart, just as with DL, we will be able to figure out the price for these lowest tier awards through reverse engineering. This is the inventory which will be made available to *A partner programs for booking.
Jun 18, 2019, 12:13 pm
#1352
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,140
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So you anticipate that one can book into X and then call in and ask a UA agent to waitlist for I? And, that UA passengers will have some transparency regarding what will be the cost of the I when it clears? That would be nice, but does that not reduce the value proposition (for UA's business model) of dynamic pricing?
They will retain the concept of a lowest tier saver award that will book into X (economy) or I (business). While there will be no published chart, just as with DL, we will be able to figure out the price for these lowest tier awards through reverse engineering. This is the inventory which will be made available to *A partner programs for booking.
Jun 18, 2019, 12:14 pm
#1353
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,396
The value proposition of Mileage Plus always was the Saver Award (a published number, regardless of the terminology), and being able to waitlist for it with a reasonable probability that it would clear. UA has already said that there will be dynamic pricing and no award chart. How can one possibly waitlist for a moving target with no published boundary conditions? I'd really like for someone to clue me in because my brain isn't big enough to figure out how it would work, and why UA would want to implement such a system when they have already committed to dynamic pricing.
As for how it would work: if you go to the supermarket, and your favorite toothpaste is on sale for $3 a tube, but they’re out of stock, the price is still $3 a tube — you just can’t buy any today. But, you can go to customer service and ask for a rain check, so that when inventory is available, you can get your $3 tube of toothpaste. That’s how waitlisting would work, if they choose to allow it: they’d determine what the “Saver” price would be if there were any inventory available, and allow you to waitlist at that level.
I still think that they may drop Plan B waitlisting, but if they keep it, that’s how it would work.
They will retain the concept of a lowest tier saver award that will book into X (economy) or I (business). While there will be no published chart, just as with DL, we will be able to figure out the price for these lowest tier awards through reverse engineering. This is the inventory which will be made available to *A partner programs for booking.
Jun 18, 2019, 12:40 pm
#1354
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,050
They will retain the concept of a lowest tier saver award that will book into X (economy) or I (business). While there will be no published chart, just as with DL, we will be able to figure out the price for these lowest tier awards through reverse engineering. This is the inventory which will be made available to *A partner programs for booking.
Last edited by xliioper; Jun 19, 2019 at 6:30 am
Jun 18, 2019, 12:49 pm
#1355
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,050
Saver awards, yes — waitlisting, no. I’ve never done a Plan B award (waitlisting the overwater leg) and I doubt most people ever have. If UA keeps waitlisting, it’s because they’ve decided it’s valuable. After all — they don’t have to allow waitlisting on the current chart, but they have.
As for how it would work: if you go to the supermarket, and your favorite toothpaste is on sale for $3 a tube, but they’re out of stock, the price is still $3 a tube — you just can’t buy any today. But, you can go to customer service and ask for a rain check, so that when inventory is available, you can get your $3 tube of toothpaste. That’s how waitlisting would work, if they choose to allow it: they’d determine what the “Saver” price would be if there were any inventory available, and allow you to waitlist at that level.
I still think that they may drop Plan B waitlisting, but if they keep it, that’s how it would work.
I’m somewhat more skeptical of our ability to reverse-engineer UA’s fares due to the huge number of variations they offer — everyday awards seem to go in 500 mile increments from 13K to 32.5K already. That’s way more than can be explained easily by a fare table.
Jun 18, 2019, 3:25 pm
#1356
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,450
Though I don't follow the DL forum that closely, it seems that the changes (up or down) on the more popular awards (e.g., US to Europe, US to SE Asia) are spotted pretty quickly, even without an award chart.
Jun 19, 2019, 7:14 pm
#1357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Not quite "fully dynamic". Not even clearly a devaluation (it's just another option, and you still have access to the saver award space at a reasonable price). But, yeah, maybe a slippery slope. First you introduce different award levels, then you go fully dynamic.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alas...demptions.html
Jun 19, 2019, 7:49 pm
#1358
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 1,580
Well this latest devaluation finally caused me to drop the Chase M+ Visa card I've had for something like 30 years, in favor of the 2% cash back Fidelity card. I'm not a big CC guy, don't do the manufactured spending stuff or sign up for the bonuses, but I got a lot of miles on that card over the years, with a lot of business travel on my card and reimbursed by the company. But even without the $60 annual fee, the value of the miles is no longer a winning proposition compared to the cash back.
Jun 19, 2019, 9:08 pm
#1359
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,675
Well they haven't screwed over people who use their RDM to upgrade int'l flights...yet. I think eventually, we will see RDM for upgrades tied to the current cash buy-up price. So I really need to draw down my mileage balance because the more you have, the more you get screwed.
Jun 19, 2019, 9:57 pm
#1360
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,050
Skymiles awards generally average about 1.2 CPM. There may be some people redeeming at less than 1 CPM, but you can get 1 CPM out of Pay with Miles while earning full MQM's, so it's probably not a large percentage of redemptions. DL currently has summer D1 seats to Europe for 128K RT. These seats typically go for around $3K+. I'm pretty sure that's better than 1 CPM.
Jun 19, 2019, 10:45 pm
#1361
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,396
That said, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them adjust the system. They could drop the copay and increase the number of miles dramatically, since there’s no longer a virtual cap set by the saver award table. Of course, they could also keep the copay and increase the number of miles dramatically...
Jun 19, 2019, 11:14 pm
#1362
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO, TPE, HNL
Programs: UA GS 4MM, RCC life member (paid), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, CLEAR
Posts: 1,822
That said, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them adjust the system. They could drop the copay and increase the number of miles dramatically, since there’s no longer a virtual cap set by the saver award table. Of course, they could also keep the copy and increase the number of miles dramatically...
Jun 19, 2019, 11:24 pm
#1363
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,396
My bet is that there will always be a copay and that it will not be decreased. It will be a total surprise to me if UA ever drops copay - unless the number of miles is increased very very dramatically. UA is now selling miles at 2-3 cents each. If you want to give them miles instead of cash, they probably value the miles at a fraction of these prices.
Instead of $600 + 30K miles for an upgrade or 90K miles for Saver Business, it could easily be 300K miles for a Business Award or 150K miles for an upgrade.
Jun 20, 2019, 3:16 am
#1364
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,720
Skymiles awards generally average about 1.2 CPM. There may be some people redeeming at less than 1 CPM, but you can get 1 CPM out of Pay with Miles while earning full MQM's, so it's probably not a large percentage of redemptions. DL currently has summer D1 seats to Europe for 128K RT. These seats typically go for around $3K+. I'm pretty sure that's better than 1 CPM.
When i I last checked DL for the dates I needed (months ago) the flights were 150k-250k one way for summer business class. Releasing a few saver business class seats a few days before the flight (as UA often does) is useless for families planning vacations.
If 1cpm is the new normal for RDM then we will all adjust accordingly. But WN certainly looking better at 1.4 cpm. And as noted above you’d be a fool to charge a dime on an airline credit card.
Jun 20, 2019, 9:55 am
#1365
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,050
from West Coast? UA had tons of saver Y & C seats from east coast when I checked months ago.
When i I last checked DL for the dates I needed (months ago) the flights were 150k-250k one way for summer business class. Releasing a few saver business class seats a few days before the flight (as UA often does) is useless for families planning vacations.
If 1cpm is the new normal for RDM then we will all adjust accordingly. But WN certainly looking better at 1.4 cpm. And as noted above you’d be a fool to charge a dime on an airline credit card.
Last edited by xliioper; Jun 20, 2019 at 10:08 am