May 1, 2021, 4:06 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is "Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
The details:
Award travel updates
Introducing a broader range of award prices
Updates to award travel are on the horizon. For flights on or after November 15, 2019, we’ll no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for each flight.The details:
- Some award prices will be lower than what’s currently published in our chart. You may have already seen these prices, and you’ll be able to get them immediately.
- Other award prices may be higher than what you see today, especially if you’re traveling at a popular time. These prices will take effect immediately for travel November 15 or after.
- Starting November 15, we’re removing close-in fees, so you won’t be charged the extra fee of up to $75 for booking last-minute award travel.
- A flexible award travel calendar is available on united.com or in our app.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is changing?
For travel on or after November 15, we will no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for award flights. Award pricing will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors, including demand. Additionally, starting November 15, we will no longer charge a fee of up to $75 for award flights booked within 21 days of departure.When will these updates take effect?
The award pricing changes apply immediately to flights on or after November 15, 2019. Until then, award prices will be the same as or lower than what’s currently published in our award chart.How many miles will I need for award travel after November 15?
Award prices will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors. Some air awards will be available for less than what’s listed in our chart, which you may have already noticed. After November 15, award prices may also be higher, especially if you’re traveling at popular times. Use our flexible award calendar to get a monthly view of the award prices for a specific destination.Why are you making these changes?
Increasing award prices for the most in-demand flights allows us to offer better returns for our shareholders. If your award travel is flexible, these updates will help you make the most of your miles.How will these updates affect award travel availability?
United MileagePlus members with Premier® status and qualifying United Chase Cardmembers can continue to book award travel without blackout dates. For other members, most award flights that are available today will continue to be available after these updates take effect.Do the lowest-priced awards have any extra flight restrictions?
No. Our lowest priced awards do not have any added restrictions; the fare rules for all award travel apply.How can I find the lowest priced award for my travel?
The award calendar on united.com or in our app will continue to show the lowest available price for your destination.Will I earn miles on my flight if I book an award?
No. As with current award bookings, award travel in the future will not be eligible to earn miles with MileagePlus or any other loyalty program.What if I need to change my existing award?
If you need to change your award ticket, you will be issued a new ticket for which new pricing and additional fees may apply.What if I purchase a close-in award before November 15
The close-in booking fee will still apply to all tickets booked within 21 days of departure prior to November 15, 2019. We will not refund fees paid prior to November 15, even if travel occurs on or after November 15.
"Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
May 8, 2019, 12:26 pm
#1186
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Yes, I have found PZ inventory to/from HNL-SFO and LAX, but I often don't have travel flexibility to take advantage as I'm traveling for business and not leisure. It does exist and I'm pleasantly surprised when I find it.
May 8, 2019, 12:59 pm
#1187
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern California
Programs: I want to be free! Free!
Posts: 3,453
Huh?
If you're seeing a 17K price, presumably it's not a saver award, so it was never going to be combinable with the LAX-HND-CTS award at the 35K level. Is this flight before or after November 15? Keep in mind that these changes don't even go into effect until then.
You should be able to book this itinerary for 52K using multi-city search, if you're so inclined. That's worse than 35K, but not 2-3x worse.
If you're seeing a 17K price, presumably it's not a saver award, so it was never going to be combinable with the LAX-HND-CTS award at the 35K level. Is this flight before or after November 15? Keep in mind that these changes don't even go into effect until then.
You should be able to book this itinerary for 52K using multi-city search, if you're so inclined. That's worse than 35K, but not 2-3x worse.
May 8, 2019, 1:06 pm
#1188
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,362
So far, UA appears to be keeping the inventory classes for saver and everyday awards. Whether or not they release saver inventory, or how pricing might be affected for partner awards, are definitely open questions. It's going to be really difficult to tell the difference between UA not releasing saver inventory as a result of this change and UA not releasing saver inventory because they rarely have over the past couple of years. :/
May 8, 2019, 1:27 pm
#1189
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,418
Second half of last year, it was readily available on the 753s within a week of departure. But now that aircraft is off the route. I've also seen day of departure availability on the 772 red-eye, but at that point you're getting an interior middle seat.
May 8, 2019, 1:32 pm
#1190
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,859
Canceling your United credit card is probably the best way of sending the signal that their currency is dirt. If you're an elite with a credit card they think you're locked in.
May 8, 2019, 3:24 pm
#1191
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,029
I don't think anyone is "quitting the game" or they wouldn't be here. Nor - in most cases - are people going to boycott UA. Rather what is being communicated is that some elites (myself included) who previously went out of our way to direct travel spend to UA because of the MP program - both for the elite perks and the miles. With the recent changes in MP (as well as the accumulation of prior takeaways), many of us have concluded that we will reconsider this practice and may shift business to the competition.
No one can predict the financial effects for UA of these individual decisions. However we do know that UA publicly admitted that the disastrous rollout of Basic Economy cost the company at least $100 million. Make no mistake - when elites discover that they have to use 2x-4x more miles for the same family vacation trips they booked in the past they will not be happy. And despite industry consolidation there are many options at most UA hubs or co-terminals (excepting perhaps IAH) so few are locked in to UA. Also I expect that spend on Chase UA cards will drop to zero, as people discover they can do better with 2% cash back cards or simply transferrable points (chase, amex, etc)
For me, and I suspect many elites, the relative ease of use and value received from UA miles was a significant factor in my travel decisions. No longer.
No one can predict the financial effects for UA of these individual decisions. However we do know that UA publicly admitted that the disastrous rollout of Basic Economy cost the company at least $100 million. Make no mistake - when elites discover that they have to use 2x-4x more miles for the same family vacation trips they booked in the past they will not be happy. And despite industry consolidation there are many options at most UA hubs or co-terminals (excepting perhaps IAH) so few are locked in to UA. Also I expect that spend on Chase UA cards will drop to zero, as people discover they can do better with 2% cash back cards or simply transferrable points (chase, amex, etc)
For me, and I suspect many elites, the relative ease of use and value received from UA miles was a significant factor in my travel decisions. No longer.
And hey, I'm primarily an AA flier (but have been flirting with UA of late) and I'm fully aware that we are likely going to be getting the email any day talking about a new "enhancement" to award ticket pricing AA, that is just a given.
I mean you said:
Rather what is being communicated is that some elites (myself included) who previously went out of our way to direct travel spend to UA because of the MP program - both for the elite perks and the miles. With the recent changes in MP (as well as the accumulation of prior takeaways), many of us have concluded that we will reconsider this practice and may shift business to the competition.
And no, Chase's UA credit card business will not "drop to zero" That is just hyperbolic and melodramatic. Will it drop some? Sure, perhaps. Will it go to zero? Of course not. Look at AA's credit card business. Spend some time in the AA forum. It's been almost impossible to actually obtain reasonably priced award tickets for years on AA, and yet their credit card business w/Citi continues to grow (though AA's is split with Barclay's). I think you give the average (not FT) credit card consumer far too much credit.
My broader point, that I think you might have missed, and you certainly have been on FT long enough to know this, is that there is a trend of FTers somehow believing our way of thinking and our concerns represent the masses. And that just isn't really true. That has been proven time and time again. And what I was trying to say is that for the 10+ years I've been on FT, there is a constant chatter that "the sky is falling" with each and every cut. And think about the cuts! It's breathtaking. Think about the number of benefit cuts and devaluations (including how elite status is earned, etc.) that have occurred on all the carriers over the past decade! And yet, as I said, planes are fuller than ever, there are more elite members than ever, and carriers are (generally) more profitable than ever.
Honestly, even as a dedicated FT member myself, I've come to realize we often doth protest too much...
Come to the free agent side Boraxo, it can be quite liberating!
Regards
May 8, 2019, 3:35 pm
#1192
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
I put my UA ticket purchases on the Chase Sapphire Reserve. I get 3 points per dollar, which I can transfer to UA miles if I so choose (and get trip insurance as a nice bonus). Whether you think that UA miles are dirt or gold, the fact that 3 > 2 is hard to argue with.
May 8, 2019, 4:27 pm
#1193
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,393
PQD waiver (if applicable) is the only use of spending on the card, IMO.
May 8, 2019, 5:15 pm
#1194
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,715
Ummm... no offense, and not trying to be argumentative, but literally almost every single thing you have said and that you assert in this response could (and actually has) be stated by just about any FFP member of any of the major carriers, worldwide (though certainly worse in the US). Go spend time in the AA, DL, AS, or any other forum on FT. There is nothing new or unique to UA fliers here. You are just the latest, most recent ones to take a fresh blow in this game! But honestly, I mean welcome to 2013 my friend. This game has been going downhill for a long time.
My broader point, that I think you might have missed, and you certainly have been on FT long enough to know this, is that there is a trend of FTers somehow believing our way of thinking and our concerns represent the masses. And that just isn't really true. That has been proven time and time again. And what I was trying to say is that for the 10+ years I've been on FT, there is a constant chatter that "the sky is falling" with each and every cut. And think about the cuts! It's breathtaking. Think about the number of benefit cuts and devaluations (including how elite status is earned, etc.) that have occurred on all the carriers over the past decade! And yet, as I said, planes are fuller than ever, there are more elite members than ever, and carriers are (generally) more profitable than ever.
May 8, 2019, 6:45 pm
#1195
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Good inside baseball revenue / accounting criticism of the change from some loyalty execs:
https://www.traveldatadaily.com/unit...ogram-changes/
https://www.traveldatadaily.com/unit...ogram-changes/
May 8, 2019, 6:49 pm
#1196
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,029
Well I can only speak for myself, but it has always been a moving target. For example when AA eliminated MRTC, I stopped flying AA and returned to UA. When AA eliminated EQM for credit card spend, I stopped using my AA card. When DL devalued skypesos, I stopped flying DL. I think we agree that all programs have been significantly devalued over the past 10 years.
Where we disagree is that you predict that UA will feel no ill effect from these changes because the industry is profitable and FTers whine about any change. By contrast I think that actions have consequences and that UA will pay a price. Why? Because the value of MP miles was far more intrinsic to UA's airline business than skypesos are to DL. DL has loyal fans because of its operational excellence, so they tolerate a mediocre FF program because they are focused first and foremost on the air travel experience. UA has loyal fans because they like the value provided by MP, and have been willing to tolerate a subpar product (at least for domestic travel). That incentive is now gone. As for AA, the product went from great to horrible, but I still find that I can use AA miles for international saver business class awards which is the holy grail. So AA miles still have value to me. DL miles do not, and it appears UA may not once partner awards are devalued.
What I am saying is that there is an absolutely overwhelming amount of documented evidence, right here on FT, built up over the last 20 years of very repeatable patterns of angry FTer's predicting the imminent doom of these carriers because of customer "unfriendly" changes. And time and time again that has been unequivocally proven to not come to pass. There is really no debating that; FT is the written record of that reality. Now, have some folks around the edges changed their behavior (e.g. people like you)? Of course, but have there been the mass exodus from these programs that angry FTers predict with each and every change that comes to pass? Nope, not even a little bit.
So what you and a few others in this thread are effectively saying is, "but this time it really, really is different!" Ok, fair enough, we shall see. I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball. I just know that for the last 10+ years I've been active on FT, for that entire time, folks like you have been asserting "this time it really is the last straw" for that entire stretch. So, no predictions from me, just weighing how much I believe the predictions of many who have been consistently wrong about the future and the potential of these FFPs for a very long time. But hey, I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day!
But in many ways, I hope you are correct. I'm very curious to see where the breaking point is for many FTers. Sort of curious to see at what point the scales are lifted from peoples eyes and they finally put aside this madness of status chasing at all costs. Honestly, I sort of thought we'd hit that some time ago, but I've sure been wrong there. FTers seem as obsessed as ever with status chasing (though I do seem to be noticing more "free agents" in the last year or so).
I didn't miss it, I just disagree with your conclusion. You don't seem to understand that 25k awards are the gold standard to the masses. Just as international saver awards are the holy grail for FTers. These are now effectively gone along with award charts. Does this mean United's business will immediately tank? Of course not. Will this have short or long term effects on travel patterns and profitability? Only time will tell. But at this rate the airlines are well on the road to killing the golden goose, and the business of selling miles is headed the way of S&H green stamps.
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to share you perspective and viewpoints.
Regards
Last edited by scubadu; May 8, 2019 at 6:53 pm Reason: grammar
May 8, 2019, 9:28 pm
#1197
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,618
Good inside baseball revenue / accounting criticism of the change from some loyalty execs:
https://www.traveldatadaily.com/unit...ogram-changes/
https://www.traveldatadaily.com/unit...ogram-changes/
May 9, 2019, 1:41 am
#1198
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,522
But in many ways, I hope you are correct. I'm very curious to see where the breaking point is for many FTers. Sort of curious to see at what point the scales are lifted from peoples eyes and they finally put aside this madness of status chasing at all costs. Honestly, I sort of thought we'd hit that some time ago, but I've sure been wrong there. FTers seem as obsessed as ever with status chasing (though I do seem to be noticing more "free agents" in the last year or so).
I do understand that 25K is important to people. Where we perhaps disagree, is I'm just not sure its as important as you think. You use Delta as an example of an airline that people just fly for operational excellence. I'm not sure I completely agree with that. Obviously, that is very true of FTers, but Delta is a pretty big airline and they fill an awful lot of seats in the back of their buses and I'm not entirely sure that particular customer (i.e. "Ma and Pa Kettle") spend a lot of time obsessing about "operational excellence" and yet, as you've pointed out, DL nuked their award chart sometime ago. And given the new credit card deal they just signed with Amex is doesn't seem like that part of their business is hurting too much.
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to share you perspective and viewpoints.
Regards
I do understand that 25K is important to people. Where we perhaps disagree, is I'm just not sure its as important as you think. You use Delta as an example of an airline that people just fly for operational excellence. I'm not sure I completely agree with that. Obviously, that is very true of FTers, but Delta is a pretty big airline and they fill an awful lot of seats in the back of their buses and I'm not entirely sure that particular customer (i.e. "Ma and Pa Kettle") spend a lot of time obsessing about "operational excellence" and yet, as you've pointed out, DL nuked their award chart sometime ago. And given the new credit card deal they just signed with Amex is doesn't seem like that part of their business is hurting too much.
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to share you perspective and viewpoints.
Regards
I used to be a status chaser. Not because I lusted after it, but because I realized that if I was going to log over 100K miles a year on airplanes, I needed to maximize the benefits that were out there. 20 years ago, I chose UA as my primary carrier and AA as the back-up - not because of their FFPs, but because their route structures were the best fit for my business travel. Did I do arguably ridiculous routings in order to maximize FF benefits? Sure. But that was then, and now, as my business travel is a fraction of what it used to be, carrier loyalty isn't the driving factor - my comfort is. For example, I have 10 segments upcoming in the next 30 days. 4 segments are to and from a destination that UA doesn't serve, but of the remaining 6, I will be using 3 carriers other than UA. Why? Because the schedules/fares/comfort on the competition are better than what UA offers. This is how the airlines have modified my behavior. I recognize and accept that loyalty is now (and probably always has been) transactional, and I am now looking out for my interests, first and foremost. As I noted upthread, I have cancelled my Chase MileagePlus Club Card, and for the first time in 20 years, I won't have access to a UC or Polaris lounge unless I purchase C travel on UA. Since getting an AMEX Centurion account, I now have far more lounge flexibility that the UC Club card affords.
I burned all of my AA miles a few years ago, before their devaluation. I won't be able to burn my UA miles before November, so I have accepted the upcoming pain and moved on. I'll spend them on an overpriced TPAC once we retire. Yes, I miss UA - primarily the UA people I've met over 20 years and 1MM (and counting). Friendly pilots, FA, CSRs and lounge staff - virtually all of my encounters have been positive, even if I don't have Tom Stuker status.
But Kirby and the BoD have weaned me of slavish loyalty, and I have found that being a free agent is quite nice.
May 9, 2019, 8:19 am
#1199
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,859
There should be partner award space available at the saver rates for at least a few months before I suspect that option gets enhanced away as well, surely two trips to Europe is better than one TPAC standard award? ^ on canceling your UA club card.
May 9, 2019, 2:34 pm
#1200
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
But in many ways, I hope you are correct. I'm very curious to see where the breaking point is for many FTers. Sort of curious to see at what point the scales are lifted from peoples eyes and they finally put aside this madness of status chasing at all costs. Honestly, I sort of thought we'd hit that some time ago, but I've sure been wrong there. FTers seem as obsessed as ever with status chasing (though I do seem to be noticing more "free agents" in the last year or so).
Also, the status chasers are a relatively small community. Most people fly when they need to fly, and, if they get status, they get status. I remember the first time I did a SFO-SAN weekend trip many Decembers ago, just to get the last flights I needed for status (on WN, no less... oh, the shame) and that was a big deal to me at the time. Outside of FT, I probably know about 5 people who care about status.