May 1, 2021, 4:06 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the active thread is "Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
The details:
Award travel updates
Introducing a broader range of award prices
Updates to award travel are on the horizon. For flights on or after November 15, 2019, we’ll no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for each flight.The details:
- Some award prices will be lower than what’s currently published in our chart. You may have already seen these prices, and you’ll be able to get them immediately.
- Other award prices may be higher than what you see today, especially if you’re traveling at a popular time. These prices will take effect immediately for travel November 15 or after.
- Starting November 15, we’re removing close-in fees, so you won’t be charged the extra fee of up to $75 for booking last-minute award travel.
- A flexible award travel calendar is available on united.com or in our app.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is changing?
For travel on or after November 15, we will no longer publish an award chart listing the set amount of miles needed for award flights. Award pricing will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors, including demand. Additionally, starting November 15, we will no longer charge a fee of up to $75 for award flights booked within 21 days of departure.When will these updates take effect?
The award pricing changes apply immediately to flights on or after November 15, 2019. Until then, award prices will be the same as or lower than what’s currently published in our award chart.How many miles will I need for award travel after November 15?
Award prices will now fluctuate based on a variety of factors. Some air awards will be available for less than what’s listed in our chart, which you may have already noticed. After November 15, award prices may also be higher, especially if you’re traveling at popular times. Use our flexible award calendar to get a monthly view of the award prices for a specific destination.Why are you making these changes?
Increasing award prices for the most in-demand flights allows us to offer better returns for our shareholders. If your award travel is flexible, these updates will help you make the most of your miles.How will these updates affect award travel availability?
United MileagePlus members with Premier® status and qualifying United Chase Cardmembers can continue to book award travel without blackout dates. For other members, most award flights that are available today will continue to be available after these updates take effect.Do the lowest-priced awards have any extra flight restrictions?
No. Our lowest priced awards do not have any added restrictions; the fare rules for all award travel apply.How can I find the lowest priced award for my travel?
The award calendar on united.com or in our app will continue to show the lowest available price for your destination.Will I earn miles on my flight if I book an award?
No. As with current award bookings, award travel in the future will not be eligible to earn miles with MileagePlus or any other loyalty program.What if I need to change my existing award?
If you need to change your award ticket, you will be issued a new ticket for which new pricing and additional fees may apply.What if I purchase a close-in award before November 15
The close-in booking fee will still apply to all tickets booked within 21 days of departure prior to November 15, 2019. We will not refund fees paid prior to November 15, even if travel occurs on or after November 15.
"Dynamic Award Pricing" by UA; questions, experiences, .... {Archive}
Apr 6, 2019, 1:54 pm
#661
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,460
Just for kicks, I am searching some flights and seeing what shows up post-11/15 on .bomb.
-LAX-MEL on Friday 12/20: Economy @ 115k [40k / 100k], Polaris @ 260k [80k / 200k]
-SFO-PPT on Tuesday 11/26: Economy @ 64k [30k / 80k], Polaris @ 175k [70k / 175k]
-SFO-SYD on Tuesday 12/17: Economy @ 115k [40k / 100k], Polaris @ 260k [80k / 200k]
Seems like for peak holiday travel in the winter, 115k/260k are the high watermarks so far.
Going to the other extreme - searching for winter travel midweek to Europe/Asia after the holidays...
EWR-BRU on Tuesday 1/21: Economy @ 30k (saver level) [30k / 70k], Polaris @ 111k [60k / 155k]
EWR-LIS on Tuesday 2/4: Economy @ 30k (saver level) [30k / 70k], Polaris @ 60k (saver level) [60k / 155k]
IAD-MUC on Tuesday 1/28: Economy @ 30k (saver level) [30k / 70k], Polaris @ 155k [60k / 155k]
ORD-NRT on Wednesday 1/22: Economy @ 35k (saver level) [35k / 80k], Polaris @ 175k (on this route, you can fly NH metal @ saver level of 80k) [70k / 175k]
EWR-PVG on Tuesday 1/14: Economy @ 35k (saver level) [35k / 80k], Polaris @ 175k [70k / 175k]
DEN-NRT on Wednesday 1/29: Economy @ 35k (saver level) [35k / 80k], Polaris @ 70k (saver level) [70k / 175k]
-LAX-MEL on Friday 12/20: Economy @ 115k [40k / 100k], Polaris @ 260k [80k / 200k]
-SFO-PPT on Tuesday 11/26: Economy @ 64k [30k / 80k], Polaris @ 175k [70k / 175k]
-SFO-SYD on Tuesday 12/17: Economy @ 115k [40k / 100k], Polaris @ 260k [80k / 200k]
Seems like for peak holiday travel in the winter, 115k/260k are the high watermarks so far.
Going to the other extreme - searching for winter travel midweek to Europe/Asia after the holidays...
EWR-BRU on Tuesday 1/21: Economy @ 30k (saver level) [30k / 70k], Polaris @ 111k [60k / 155k]
EWR-LIS on Tuesday 2/4: Economy @ 30k (saver level) [30k / 70k], Polaris @ 60k (saver level) [60k / 155k]
IAD-MUC on Tuesday 1/28: Economy @ 30k (saver level) [30k / 70k], Polaris @ 155k [60k / 155k]
ORD-NRT on Wednesday 1/22: Economy @ 35k (saver level) [35k / 80k], Polaris @ 175k (on this route, you can fly NH metal @ saver level of 80k) [70k / 175k]
EWR-PVG on Tuesday 1/14: Economy @ 35k (saver level) [35k / 80k], Polaris @ 175k [70k / 175k]
DEN-NRT on Wednesday 1/29: Economy @ 35k (saver level) [35k / 80k], Polaris @ 70k (saver level) [70k / 175k]
For comparison, above I filled in the former chart saver/standard amounts for each. My interpretation is that — so far — they're using the dynamic pricing to just go above the 'everyday' level when they think demand is / will be high, and the amounts (15% – 30%) are significant but not outrageous.
Apr 6, 2019, 2:08 pm
#662
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,400
I feel the 1Ks are missing the forest from the trees.
1. Average 1K probably accumulates ~200K miles/yr
2. This new system is probably a 20% devaluation = $400
3. You're still awarded 6 GPUs/yr. Worth $2K each = $12K
4. The new PP will suck up a huge # of GPUs making Polaris upgrades more accessible.
5. Mileage devaluation will require more miles for flights, thereby leaving fewer miles for Polaris upgrades. So again, Polaris more accesable with GPUs.
So the financial impact of the devaluation is minimal when you look at the big picture.
If you're not 1K, I agree you're screwed. UA needs fodder to fill the seats not consumed by high volume flyers. You need to figure out whether you want to be this fodder.
1. Average 1K probably accumulates ~200K miles/yr
2. This new system is probably a 20% devaluation = $400
3. You're still awarded 6 GPUs/yr. Worth $2K each = $12K
4. The new PP will suck up a huge # of GPUs making Polaris upgrades more accessible.
5. Mileage devaluation will require more miles for flights, thereby leaving fewer miles for Polaris upgrades. So again, Polaris more accesable with GPUs.
So the financial impact of the devaluation is minimal when you look at the big picture.
If you're not 1K, I agree you're screwed. UA needs fodder to fill the seats not consumed by high volume flyers. You need to figure out whether you want to be this fodder.
2 - I'll believe it's only 20% when I see it. Look at Delta's charts. I also believe dynamic pricing on *A awards is coming, and that'll be the end of relatively "cheap" partner awards. Also, I've had very good luck getting domestic saver awards even on expensive flights. That will change -- it's not going from 12.5K to 15K -- I expect it to go to from 12.5K to 60K for the flights I'd want to use them on.
3 - GPUs aren't worth anywhere near $2K each. I value them at $500; many value them at less. Some value them at $0 because they don't have the flexibility to use them.
4 - You're dramatically overestimating the P+ effect, especially on the routes I tend to fly. W fares aren't that much more expensive than the cheapest fares -- sometimes they are the cheapest. This idea you have that people still start buying G fares and using a GPU to go to P+ -- I think that's only going to be true for certificates that would otherwise have gone to waste. And I really don't think it will have a material effect on advance PZ space, which is all I care about anyway. The only GPU I've ever waitlisted was J->F on LH.
5 - Again, I think that will have a minimal effect on PZ space. Miles + copay awards were never really that good of a deal anyway.
I assume these are all one-way searches?
For comparison, above I filled in the former chart saver/standard amounts for each. My interpretation is that — so far — they're using the dynamic pricing to just go above the 'everyday' level when they think demand is / will be high, and the amounts (15% – 30%) are significant but not outrageous.
For comparison, above I filled in the former chart saver/standard amounts for each. My interpretation is that — so far — they're using the dynamic pricing to just go above the 'everyday' level when they think demand is / will be high, and the amounts (15% – 30%) are significant but not outrageous.
I would have been angry about a 30% raise in the cap for Everyday awards, but at least they still would have had a cap, and Saver awards would still have existed when you could find them. (And you could waitlist for them, and UA would often open last-minute saver I space). We don't how how that will be changing.
Apr 6, 2019, 2:13 pm
#663
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, Starwood Gold
Posts: 951
Maybe this was covered previously, but if you book a flight at a higher amount, and later on it's available for a lower amount will you be able to get the lower priced award easily?
Currently if you book as standard and closer to your travel date a saver becomes available, a competent agent can get you the saver price.
Also is still best practice to book one way awards?
Currently if you book as standard and closer to your travel date a saver becomes available, a competent agent can get you the saver price.
Also is still best practice to book one way awards?
Apr 6, 2019, 2:16 pm
#664
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SAN
Posts: 148
It is definitely a de-value for 1K members..
I believe MP will be voted to step down the best FFP program..
Let's do it and hopefully they will know that copying Delta is not the right way.
I believe MP will be voted to step down the best FFP program..
Let's do it and hopefully they will know that copying Delta is not the right way.
Apr 6, 2019, 2:18 pm
#665
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,460
1 - Well, to retain 1K, I have to earn 165K miles from flying this year, but I'm not at all sure it's worth it.
2 - I'll believe it's only 20% when I see it. Look at Delta's charts. I also believe dynamic pricing on *A awards is coming, and that'll be the end of relatively "cheap" partner awards. Also, I've had very good luck getting domestic saver awards even on expensive flights. That will change -- it's not going from 12.5K to 15K -- I expect it to go to from 12.5K to 60K for the flights I'd want to use them on.
3 - GPUs aren't worth anywhere near $2K each. I value them at $500; many value them at less. Some value them at $0 because they don't have the flexibility to use them.
4 - You're dramatically overestimating the P+ effect, especially on the routes I tend to fly. W fares aren't that much more expensive than the cheapest fares -- sometimes they are the cheapest. This idea you have that people still start buying G fares and using a GPU to go to P+ -- I think that's only going to be true for certificates that would otherwise have gone to waste. And I really don't think it will have a material effect on advance PZ space, which is all I care about anyway. The only GPU I've ever waitlisted was J->F on LH.
5 - Again, I think that will have a minimal effect on PZ space. Miles + copay awards were never really that good of a deal anyway.
Keep in mind, it's still Day 2.
I would have been angry about a 30% raise in the cap for Everyday awards, but at least they still would have had a cap, and Saver awards would still have existed when you could find them. (And you could waitlist for them, and UA would often open last-minute saver I space). We don't how how that will be changing.
2 - I'll believe it's only 20% when I see it. Look at Delta's charts. I also believe dynamic pricing on *A awards is coming, and that'll be the end of relatively "cheap" partner awards. Also, I've had very good luck getting domestic saver awards even on expensive flights. That will change -- it's not going from 12.5K to 15K -- I expect it to go to from 12.5K to 60K for the flights I'd want to use them on.
3 - GPUs aren't worth anywhere near $2K each. I value them at $500; many value them at less. Some value them at $0 because they don't have the flexibility to use them.
4 - You're dramatically overestimating the P+ effect, especially on the routes I tend to fly. W fares aren't that much more expensive than the cheapest fares -- sometimes they are the cheapest. This idea you have that people still start buying G fares and using a GPU to go to P+ -- I think that's only going to be true for certificates that would otherwise have gone to waste. And I really don't think it will have a material effect on advance PZ space, which is all I care about anyway. The only GPU I've ever waitlisted was J->F on LH.
5 - Again, I think that will have a minimal effect on PZ space. Miles + copay awards were never really that good of a deal anyway.
Keep in mind, it's still Day 2.
I would have been angry about a 30% raise in the cap for Everyday awards, but at least they still would have had a cap, and Saver awards would still have existed when you could find them. (And you could waitlist for them, and UA would often open last-minute saver I space). We don't how how that will be changing.
Apr 6, 2019, 2:23 pm
#666
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,400
For a 1K ? Absolutely, unless you want / need the excursionist perk.
Apr 6, 2019, 2:26 pm
#667
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,969
Yet, WN still does well by their credit card program. I think that shows that consumers as a whole don't think about these things the way we do around here. And it's the consumers as a whole, and not the FT community, that the airlines must cater to.
And this is the only reality for publicly traded entities. They are beholding to their shareholders first and foremost. Whether passengers/customers are satisfied or not is largely irrelevant until profits suffer. For those who think DL is suffering because of their weak FFP or derogatory SkyPeso reference, their profits do not support that conjecture. Like it or not, UA is merely following their successful business model. Do I like the new redemption scheme? Of course not. But were I invested in UAL, I would be open to getting more value from my investment. Perhaps as a hedge against the devalued MP miles, one should invest in UAL and hope for increased dividends.
Apr 6, 2019, 2:35 pm
#668
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: UA *G 1MM LT United Club & Global Entry
Posts: 2,756
Apr 6, 2019, 3:28 pm
#669
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CHS
Programs: UA GS, Bonvoy Amabassador, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,589
They are victims of their own success.
I think that being able to plan is far secondary to the value one receives, at least for me. For example, as far as I can tell, WN points are now worth about $0.015 each, plus or minus a small percent, depending on which flights you redeem them on. That may be fine as a reward for flying WN, but why would anyone get the WN credit card, when they could just get a 1.5% (or better) cash back card and be done with it? WN credit cards don't even offer the perks that some others due, since WN already has free bags and has no lounges to offer access to.
I think that being able to plan is far secondary to the value one receives, at least for me. For example, as far as I can tell, WN points are now worth about $0.015 each, plus or minus a small percent, depending on which flights you redeem them on. That may be fine as a reward for flying WN, but why would anyone get the WN credit card, when they could just get a 1.5% (or better) cash back card and be done with it? WN credit cards don't even offer the perks that some others due, since WN already has free bags and has no lounges to offer access to.
This leaves us to control what we can
Apr 6, 2019, 4:22 pm
#670
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,969
I'm not quite sure what your point is. I would guess (although I could be wrong) that airfare is a small portion of most peoples' credit card spending. I was referring to selecting a credit card for earnings on overall spend. Thus, it doesn't really matter who pays for the business airfare.
Apr 6, 2019, 4:39 pm
#671
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,901
I think I’m done playing the game. After years of 1K I’m not sure I’ll even make *G this year. I can never find flights to use my GPUs on already much less CPUs. It’s a small miracle when one clears. Domestic, I just buy up to F. I’m two years away from retiring Anyway. I’m just going to spend down my miles and call it quits. That high charge grandfathered Chase card? Gone.
Apr 6, 2019, 4:40 pm
#672
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,400
I'm not quite sure what your point is. I would guess (although I could be wrong) that airfare is a small portion of most peoples' credit card spending. I was referring to selecting a credit card for earnings on overall spend. Thus, it doesn't really matter who pays for the business airfare.
I'm sure UA will see the same thing with the Explorer card. With a $95 annual fee, it will remain attractive for infrequent travelers who check luggage, but is increasingly a poor value for frequent travelers.
I only keep it now because my upgrade rate on award tickets is very good -- but if I'm no longer buying award tickets because there's no value over using cash, I'll drop it. I've already moved my spending to the CSR -- I'm literally paying for the club passes and the award upgrades.
Apr 6, 2019, 4:42 pm
#673
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,200
If it was up to Kirby, the UA program would be smoke and mirrors for 99% of customers, while only those who fly Y/B/M fares would ever earn Elite status - anyone else is just problematic cargo to him. It's the Baldanza way.
Apr 6, 2019, 4:54 pm
#674
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,998
I think people sign up for the WN card either out of brand loyalty or to get the bonus and then don't stop to think about whether or not it continues to make sense for them.
I'm sure UA will see the same thing with the Explorer card. With a $95 annual fee, it will remain attractive for infrequent travelers who check luggage, but is increasingly a poor value for frequent travelers.
I only keep it now because my upgrade rate on award tickets is very good -- but if I'm no longer buying award tickets because there's no value over using cash, I'll drop it. I've already moved my spending to the CSR -- I'm literally paying for the club passes and the award upgrades.
I'm sure UA will see the same thing with the Explorer card. With a $95 annual fee, it will remain attractive for infrequent travelers who check luggage, but is increasingly a poor value for frequent travelers.
I only keep it now because my upgrade rate on award tickets is very good -- but if I'm no longer buying award tickets because there's no value over using cash, I'll drop it. I've already moved my spending to the CSR -- I'm literally paying for the club passes and the award upgrades.
In addition, the rental car coverage is superb. I had a windshield broken by a truck dropping debris, and the card covered the windshield replacement and "out-of-service" charges with no deductible.
Priority Pass comes with the card and, while I was initially skeptical, I now find that I prefer many Priority Pass lounges/restaurants in various airports over the insanely overcrowded UCs.
You have chosen wisely:
Last edited by zombietooth; Apr 6, 2019 at 5:00 pm
Apr 6, 2019, 5:00 pm
#675
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
The Smisek strategy for UA assumed a core cohort of customers would be forced, by reduced competition or corporate contracts, to fly United no matter their attitude toward the airline, licensing UA to ease up on pesky / difficult factors like 80%+ OTP, customer sat, and loyalty rewards. Kirby is not so different. Their idea of a utopian market is no consumer choice.