Jan 4, 2021, 1:37 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the archive thread is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1960195-b737max-cleared-faa-resume-passenger-flights-when-will-ua-max-flights-resume.html
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
READ BEFORE POSTING
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
May 15, 2019, 10:19 am
#1411
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May 15, 2019, 10:43 am
#1412
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People keep making this argument, and its just wrong. In both the lion air and Ethiopian crashes the pilots fixed the trim, only to have it go back out rapidly on its own. This was not a one time problem, it was a problem that kept re-occurring when the run-away trim process was used. And the usual thought, turn off the auto pilot did not fix the problem.
May 15, 2019, 10:57 am
#1413
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May 15, 2019, 11:39 am
#1414
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Very few here have the willingness to put aside their media driven interpretation of the events and be receptive to accept feedback from experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft.
May 15, 2019, 12:30 pm
#1415
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How about next time you're in a 737 sim that also has mcas and see if you're able to recover the plane as per the Ethiopian airlines situation and report back.
May 15, 2019, 12:34 pm
#1416
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But the question remains; Why do the allegedly badly trained "third-world" pilots have a problem with these runaways on the max but not on the ng? mcas could be the difference, or something else.
May 15, 2019, 12:49 pm
#1417
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I know exactly where you’re going with that and totally agree with you Larry, but pick your battles.
Very few here have the willingness to put aside their media driven interpretation of the events and be receptive to accept feedback from experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft.
May 15, 2019, 12:59 pm
#1418
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Unfortunately it seems like the ET pilots got themselves in a tough position with the multiple MCAS trim inputs without disconnecting electric trim and/or providing proper runaway trim recovery techniques.
The situation compounded due to an extreme high speed/thrust setting. Either A) Auto-throttles were never disconnected (per procedure) or B) Airplane captured altitude hold setting keeping the current airspeed/thrust position and pilots never reduced to a manageable speed.
At a slower airspeed, manual trim movements are easier to conduct and the negative aerodynamic effects of the out of trim situation are significantly reduced. Flying fast with takeoff or climb thrust still active and trying to handle a flight control issue, that’s a really difficult position to recover from.
May 15, 2019, 1:12 pm
#1419
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The situation compounded due to an extreme high speed/thrust setting. Either A) Auto-throttles were never disconnected (per procedure) or B) Airplane captured altitude hold setting keeping the current airspeed/thrust position and pilots never reduced to a manageable speed.
That situation would be quite difficult to recover from at such a low altitude.
May 15, 2019, 1:20 pm
#1420
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The data that I've seen indicates that they (ET302) were in LVL CHG with a higher altitude selected on the MCP. That puts the autothrottles into N1 mode with an N1 setting of CLB (climb power). A/T was never disconnected. Thrust stayed at 91% N1 until a few seconds before the end of the flight. Indicated airspeed was as high as 390 KIAS. Electric trim wasn't disconnected until multiple uncorrected unscheduled MCAS activations had pushed the stab to nearly full nose-down trim.
That situation would be quite difficult to recover from at such a low altitude.
That situation would be quite difficult to recover from at such a low altitude.
Escalating downward trim with high climb thrust is a tough place to be. Bad things happen very quickly.
Last edited by clubord; May 15, 2019 at 1:35 pm
May 15, 2019, 1:53 pm
#1421
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
Addis Ababa Bole International Airport is at 7,625 ft elevation? The ET plane was like at 3,000 ft above the ground?
May 15, 2019, 2:18 pm
#1422
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May 15, 2019, 2:31 pm
#1423
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The two or three "experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft" who post on this thread are counterbalanced by the "experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft" who have had to comment, anonymously for fear of retaliation, about the problems with the MAX.
Perhaps I would say that very few here have the willingness to put aside the Boeing talking points and be receptive to accept feedback from experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft.
May 15, 2019, 3:09 pm
#1424
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I'm well aware. And you get to fly it for a while when it comes back before I set foot on it. <shrugs>
The question is: Did 350 people have to die for us to realize that there were flaws in how the 737MAX was brought to market? Could we have seen the potential dangers, identified and remedied them earlier in the process, and not have had to destroy 350 families and thousands of family members? @:-)
The question is: Did 350 people have to die for us to realize that there were flaws in how the 737MAX was brought to market? Could we have seen the potential dangers, identified and remedied them earlier in the process, and not have had to destroy 350 families and thousands of family members? @:-)
May 15, 2019, 3:11 pm
#1425
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 233
Yes. Exactly. I would say the exact same thing.
The two or three "experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft" who post on this thread are counterbalanced by the "experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft" who have had to comment, anonymously for fear of retaliation, about the problems with the MAX.
Perhaps I would say that very few here have the willingness to put aside the Boeing talking points and be receptive to accept feedback from experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft.
The two or three "experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft" who post on this thread are counterbalanced by the "experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft" who have had to comment, anonymously for fear of retaliation, about the problems with the MAX.
Perhaps I would say that very few here have the willingness to put aside the Boeing talking points and be receptive to accept feedback from experienced pilots with knowledge of this aircraft.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 15, 2019 at 7:23 pm Reason: discuss the issue, not the poster(s)