Jan 4, 2021, 1:37 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the archive thread is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1960195-b737max-cleared-faa-resume-passenger-flights-when-will-ua-max-flights-resume.html
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
READ BEFORE POSTING
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
May 13, 2019, 10:10 am
#1381
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,395
Life is much easier if you decide the outcome you want before knowing the facts. In this case, if the FAA is on-site, it's because they're corrupt, and if they're not on-site, it's because they're lax.
May 13, 2019, 11:07 am
#1382
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,721
What a number of replies. Please relax. Just seems that Boeing and FAA got a little too close for (my) comfort.
May 13, 2019, 11:27 am
#1383
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,218
You do know one of the well known and not so secret tactics during a tax audit is to get close to the tax auditors so they get comfortable with the positions taken on tax returns. The taxpayer understands the nuances of the transaction much better than the IRS and can educate them on the result. There is a reason uncertain tax positions taken by a taxpayer get referred to the Chief Counsel's office for an independent viewpoint, and the IRS decisions do not involve the potential loss of someone's life.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine but Boeing's tactics are a classic approach to ensuring you get the answer you want from a regulatory authority. The foreign regulatory authorities are not sitting in Boeing's offices and happy for the FAA to explain the Boeing position to ensure it passes muster.
⬆️⬆️⬆️ This sums up my attitude as well.
May 13, 2019, 12:00 pm
#1385
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 233
I think it would be great if a lot of people would relax and let the facts come out and then make appropriate judgement. Seems like that’s not possible for all.
May 13, 2019, 12:10 pm
#1386
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1K | Marriott Ambassador (LT Plat) | National Exec Elite | Global Entry | HH Silver
Posts: 419
The latest estimate for the fleet to be un-grounded is mid-August per the WSJ article published mid-morning. Realistically speaking, there will need to be a period where software updates and mods are applied to the grounded fleet making early September a more likely reality for meaningful service to start back up.
It will likely be an ugly summer for delays and cancellations as the fleet gets stretched thinner and more maintenance is deferred.
It will likely be an ugly summer for delays and cancellations as the fleet gets stretched thinner and more maintenance is deferred.
May 13, 2019, 2:40 pm
#1387
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: LH M&M, BA EC, DL SM
Posts: 5,721
About the cause, there are many different explanations and interpretations. Concerning this, the jury is still out whose “facts” are really facts.
May 13, 2019, 3:34 pm
#1388
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 233
But, there's a lot we don't know at this point and conjecture and conspiracy theories thrive in atmospheres where we still don't know a lot and with subject matter that is inherently complex.
May 13, 2019, 4:23 pm
#1389
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
The max and ng have published runaway trim procecdures which do not include reengaging the electric trim. I am also pretty certain that coupled with overspend that this is was not in the flight envelope regardless of mcas. The loss of situational awareness I believe was a factor in the crash and if they slowed down could have lead to stablilizing the trim manually as prescribed and prevented the second mcas engagement. But they reengaged the electric trim and didn't slow the plane down. Anyone can look at the flight data and draw their own inferences on speed and pitch control but that is how I understand the events of the flight.
May 13, 2019, 5:25 pm
#1390
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,692
The latest estimate for the fleet to be un-grounded is mid-August per the WSJ article published mid-morning. Realistically speaking, there will need to be a period where software updates and mods are applied to the grounded fleet making early September a more likely reality for meaningful service to start back up.
Fixing the pilots with additional training will take a bit longer, particularly at airlines without a strong training culture.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 14, 2019 at 6:54 am Reason: OP; not UA relate content removed
May 14, 2019, 12:53 am
#1391
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: UA, Some Others
Posts: 286
Ya, but you know what? Some of us, who are very frequent flyers, aren't getting on the MAX again. When your best customers won't use a service, good companies notice.
At the end of the day, {passengers} will conclude that if the pilots are willing to fly it, I'm willing to fly it.
May 14, 2019, 5:29 am
#1392
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: KEWR
Programs: Marriott Platinum
Posts: 794
Every crash began with a pilot "willing to fly it." Sometimes, it is important to have your own judgement, rather than just trusting those telling you "everything is okay". But you're right. Many people will just book the cheapest flight. As somebody said upthread: "ignorance is bliss".
If there is not 100% confidence in the airplane I’m strapped onto...I don’t fly. I’ve turned down airplanes before and will continue to do so unless I feel absolutely positive there will be a successful outcome to the flight.
We as pilots all have lives and families, I’m not going to risk mine hoping “everything is ok” as you infer. The safety culture here at United or any US Legacy carrier just does not operate like that.
May 14, 2019, 5:41 am
#1393
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
Every crash began with a pilot "willing to fly it." Sometimes, it is important to have your own judgement, rather than just trusting those telling you "everything is okay". But you're right. Many people will just book the cheapest flight. As somebody said upthread: "ignorance is bliss".
glad you found the common starting point to all of these crashes!
May 14, 2019, 6:31 am
#1394
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,122
Every crash began with a pilot "willing to fly it." Sometimes, it is important to have your own judgement, rather than just trusting those telling you "everything is okay". But you're right. Many people will just book the cheapest flight. As somebody said upthread: "ignorance is bliss".
May 14, 2019, 7:03 am
#1395
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 26,689
If there is an area in life in which we strive for more perfect, it's air travel. We've done a tremendous job moving ever closer to this aspirational goal. I am certainly not going to observe two plane crashes of the same model type within five months and say, "Hey, the world's not perfect." @:-)