Jan 4, 2021, 1:37 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the archive thread is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1960195-b737max-cleared-faa-resume-passenger-flights-when-will-ua-max-flights-resume.html
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
READ BEFORE POSTING
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
Mar 10, 2019, 10:39 am
#31
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US-based pilots are well aware of the issues that lead to the crash of the earlier 737 Max, and have been trained appropriately. It's not just our lives at stake; it's their own too. I regularly train (ride bicycles) with an AA pilot and he's definitely on top of this stuff. I have no issue whatsoever flying a mainline legacy carrier aircraft of any type. I have flown Ethiopian Air, actually the exact same route as this morning's disaster. Like many (not all!!!) carriers outside the US, there is a sense of "fly casual." Flying in the US is extremely safe. Flying elsewhere is likely much safer than any other way to get around (although I might have some misgivings about a few South American carriers; that plane in Peru that burned to the ground a couple years ago... I was on that airline, at that location, just a couple weeks prior. It didn't surprise me. Nobody died if I recall correctly).
Mar 10, 2019, 10:51 am
#32
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Mar 10, 2019, 10:55 am
#33
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Mar 10, 2019, 11:05 am
#34
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I was already hesitant based on the Lion Air incident and subsequent reports about how Boeing evaded FAA safety restrictions with the new aircraft flight control systems.
Mar 10, 2019, 11:06 am
#35
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 30
Not really. Personally, I’m booked on one today (Air Canada Max 8), and am not particularly worried. If it turns out there’s a flaw with the MAX, you can bet Boeing will fix it. They have too much riding on the line not to.
Keep in mind the 787, while thankfully not involved in any accidents, was actually grounded for a few months because of safety concerns related to the battery, and other than some delivery delays and compensation, they haven’t really suffered for it.
Mar 10, 2019, 11:17 am
#36
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I personally mentally suppressed incident 1, but will not set foot on another MAX until we get more details about incident 2.
Mar 10, 2019, 11:18 am
#37
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Mar 10, 2019, 11:29 am
#38
Join Date: Feb 2016
Programs: Hyatt Globalist | Jumpseat Platinum
Posts: 546
Any airline crash, anywhere in the world, will make me stop and rethink. It's harrowing, and in all reality, we're in the hands of two pilots. Thankfully, UA (like most US majors) has a wonderful group up front on every flight -- I may not agree with them on everything, (and might find their frequent bathroom trips annoying 
) but I'm okay putting my life in their hands.
As far as the MAX series goes, I have no issue stepping on one to work, pass ride, or even putting my family and friends on one. It's a wonderful airplane.
) but I'm okay putting my life in their hands.As far as the MAX series goes, I have no issue stepping on one to work, pass ride, or even putting my family and friends on one. It's a wonderful airplane.
Mar 10, 2019, 11:33 am
#39
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For those who are interested in more details about how Boeing evaded FAA regulations which would have otherwise required retraining of pilots on its flight control systems (which will automatically push the aircraft's nose down in certain circumstances), there is an excellent NYT article: After a Lion Air 737 Max Crashed in October Questions About the Plane rose
It's a classic story of profits over safety and the risks of a captive regulator.
It's a classic story of profits over safety and the risks of a captive regulator.
Mar 10, 2019, 11:37 am
#40
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The initial post to which I responded implies some similarity to the Lion Air accident. It's way too early to conclude anything about causation in the ET crash, although the fact that it is another 7M8 is a disturbing coincidence.
At this point, the Lion Air appears to have some relationship to the improper management of the MCAS nose-down command, which functions to trim the stabilizer in order to control pitch in a narrowly-defined scenario where an airplane is approaching a stall. It's not an inherently unsafe design; to the contrary, the reason the system is in place is to provide flight envelope protection when the aircraft is being flown into a marginal situation (high AOA, higher stall speed due to clean configuration, steep bank, manual control). We don't even know whether the ET 7M8 was configured and flown such that the MCAS protection is available.
There is some FR24 data available showing some irregular variability in vertical speed in the minutes before the crash, which resembles the JT610 profile, but that data is not verified and is difficult to interpret in a vacuum.
So, the bottom line is I'm not calling for the grounding of the airplane at this point, nor I am changing my travel plans to avoid the MAX at all costs.
Mar 10, 2019, 12:21 pm
#41
Join Date: Jan 2007
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You'll note that I'm not speculating as to the cause of the ET crash at all. I litigate airplane crashes for a living and of course am careful to avoid postulating causal theories while the wreckage is still smoldering.
The initial post to which I responded implies some similarity to the Lion Air accident. It's way too early to conclude anything about causation in the ET crash, although the fact that it is another 7M8 is a disturbing coincidence.
At this point, the Lion Air appears to have some relationship to the improper management of the MCAS nose-down command, which functions to trim the stabilizer in order to control pitch in a narrowly-defined scenario where an airplane is approaching a stall. It's not an inherently unsafe design; to the contrary, the reason the system is in place is to provide flight envelope protection when the aircraft is being flown into a marginal situation (high AOA, higher stall speed due to clean configuration, steep bank, manual control). We don't even know whether the ET 7M8 was configured and flown such that the MCAS protection is available.
There is some FR24 data available showing some irregular variability in vertical speed in the minutes before the crash, which resembles the JT610 profile, but that data is not verified and is difficult to interpret in a vacuum.
So, the bottom line is I'm not calling for the grounding of the airplane at this point, nor I am changing my travel plans to avoid the MAX at all costs.
The initial post to which I responded implies some similarity to the Lion Air accident. It's way too early to conclude anything about causation in the ET crash, although the fact that it is another 7M8 is a disturbing coincidence.
At this point, the Lion Air appears to have some relationship to the improper management of the MCAS nose-down command, which functions to trim the stabilizer in order to control pitch in a narrowly-defined scenario where an airplane is approaching a stall. It's not an inherently unsafe design; to the contrary, the reason the system is in place is to provide flight envelope protection when the aircraft is being flown into a marginal situation (high AOA, higher stall speed due to clean configuration, steep bank, manual control). We don't even know whether the ET 7M8 was configured and flown such that the MCAS protection is available.
There is some FR24 data available showing some irregular variability in vertical speed in the minutes before the crash, which resembles the JT610 profile, but that data is not verified and is difficult to interpret in a vacuum.
So, the bottom line is I'm not calling for the grounding of the airplane at this point, nor I am changing my travel plans to avoid the MAX at all costs.
That said, in the interest of full disclosure and any potential parallels to max etc. the JT610 crash also has a troubling maintenance issue and documentation with the AOA sensor which the previous crew/flight struggled with/reported, then put back in service. The aircraft was declared not airworthy in the preliminary report IIRC which potentially puts the trim cutout arguments moot (how is a flying officer supposed to respond to a aircraft not maintained in an airworthy state?).
Mar 10, 2019, 12:36 pm
#42
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: IHG Platinum
Posts: 629
US-based pilots are well aware of the issues that lead to the crash of the earlier 737 Max, and have been trained appropriately. It's not just our lives at stake; it's their own too. I regularly train (ride bicycles) with an AA pilot and he's definitely on top of this stuff. I have no issue whatsoever flying a mainline legacy carrier aircraft of any type. I have flown Ethiopian Air, actually the exact same route as this morning's disaster. Like many (not all!!!) carriers outside the US, there is a sense of "fly casual." Flying in the US is extremely safe. Flying elsewhere is likely much safer than any other way to get around (although I might have some misgivings about a few South American carriers; that plane in Peru that burned to the ground a couple years ago... I was on that airline, at that location, just a couple weeks prior. It didn't surprise me. Nobody died if I recall correctly).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sea...crash/%3famp=1
Mar 10, 2019, 12:43 pm
#43
Join Date: Jan 2007
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They weren’t “well aware” prior to November, so disaster #1 could have been AA/UA/WN. It doesn’t negate the fact that there is a flaw with this aircraft type.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sea...crash/%3famp=1
Mar 10, 2019, 12:50 pm
#44
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In discussions with people following the ET crash, my general theme has been to discourage a rush to judgment ("ground the MAX" or "I'm not getting on one until they figure it out") and let the process - a very good, effective one at that - play out.
Mar 10, 2019, 1:04 pm
#45
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,124
That is fair, and of course there are procedures to recover from irregular occurrences, e.g., runaway elevator trim (even if occasioned by instrumentation failure) that may not have been followed in the JT610 case... time will tell.
In discussions with people following the ET crash, my general theme has been to discourage a rush to judgment ("ground the MAX" or "I'm not getting on one until they figure it out") and let the process - a very good, effective one at that - play out.
In discussions with people following the ET crash, my general theme has been to discourage a rush to judgment ("ground the MAX" or "I'm not getting on one until they figure it out") and let the process - a very good, effective one at that - play out.