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B737MAX-Cleared by FAA to resume passenger flights;UA MAX flights resumed 11 Feb 2020

Old Mar 11, 2019, 12:37 pm
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Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.

Now that UA MAX flights have resumed, see UA statement at All about the Boeing 737 MAX: Safety, status and more
If you do not wish to fly on a MAX aircraft, we will rebook you at no charge or refund your ticket. This includes domestic ticket changes, Basic Economy tickets and international tickets if you move from one of our MAX flights to one of our non-MAX United or United Express flights. If your original itinerary involved another carrier, we will attempt to rebook you on your original airline on a non-MAX flight as well.

When we begin to fly the MAX once again, you should feel completely confident that we have taken all the necessary steps to confirm that our 737 MAX aircraft are as safe as any of our aircraft flying today. Safety has been and always will be our top priority, and its something we will never compromise for any reason.
We will waive any applicable change fees or difference in fare if your rebooked flight:
  • Has the same origin and destination as your original flight
  • Is in your originally ticketed cabin (any booking code)
  • Is rescheduled for the same day or one day earlier or later than your original travel date
  • Is a United or United Express flight only
If your original itinerary involves another carrier, we will rebook you on your original airline, and your ticket must be rebooked in the same booking code on the same routing.

If you dont meet these conditions but still want to rebook, you may use the value of your ticket to rebook on another flight without a change fee, but a fare difference may apply based on the fare rules of the ticket.

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
READ BEFORE POSTING

Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.

Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...

As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.

The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.

Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).

However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.

The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.

Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.

Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.

The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).

Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
================================================== ========

The first B737 MAX, an enhanced version of the B737 family, started service in May 2016, a MAX 8. MAX 9 entered service March 2018. (UA service start date??)
The MAX series was ground in March 2019 after two incidents involve the MCAS; Lion Air Flight 610 - Wikipedia and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 - Wikipedia

United did not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it had operated the 737 MAX 9.

All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) were grounded. Boeing in conjunction with FAA, EASA, Transport Canada and other national air safety organizations entered into a cause investigation, into the MCAS operation, into if sufficient training had been provided and into if the original certification process had been sufficient rigid.
Preliminary Summary of the FAAs Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF).

The FAA (18 Nov 2020), EASA (24 Nov 2020) and Transport Canada (17 Dec 2020) have re-certified the MAX 8 & MAX 9 for commercial flight
Boeing 737 MAX certification - Wikipedia

AA resumed use of MAX8 on 29 Dec 2020
UA plans to resumes service of the MAX9 in Feb 2020 (from IAH and DEN)

Airlines have resumed taking deliveries of the MAX 8 & 9

================
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:

View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.

The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.

For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.



B737MAX Recertification - Archive
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B737MAX-Cleared by FAA to resume passenger flights;UA MAX flights resumed 11 Feb 2020

Old Oct 13, 2022, 11:37 am
  #466  
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There are some storm clouds for some 737 MAXs in the future -- Certain versions of the MAX flight certifications expires at the end of the year
FAA says Boeing has not completed work needed for 737 MAX 7 approval

U.S. Senate defense bill does not extend Boeing 737 MAX certification -sources

Seems to be just an issue with 737 MAX 7 ( and MAX 10) certification, so UA's MAX 8s and MAX 9s will / may not be impacted but expect more MAX news / confusion in the future
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Old Oct 13, 2022, 11:54 am
  #467  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
There are some storm clouds for some 737 MAXs in the future -- Certain versions of the MAX flight certifications expires at the end of the year
FAA says Boeing has not completed work needed for 737 MAX 7 approval

U.S. Senate defense bill does not extend Boeing 737 MAX certification -sources

Seems to be just an issue with 737 MAX 7 ( and MAX 10) certification, so UA's MAX 8s and MAX 9s will / may not be impacted but expect more MAX news / confusion in the future
The MAX 8 and MAX 9 are not affected. Once its certified, its certified. The questions pertain only to the not-yet-certified MAX 7 and MAX 10 variants.
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Old Oct 13, 2022, 12:09 pm
  #468  
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Originally Posted by jsloan
The MAX 8 and MAX 9 are not affected. Once it’s certified, it’s certified. The questions pertain only to the not-yet-certified MAX 7 and MAX 10 variants.
Agree UA should be unaffected by this but that may get lost in the public's understanding -- especially if DL/WN/... start reporting cancellations.
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Old Oct 13, 2022, 3:06 pm
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
Seems to be just an issue with 737 MAX 7 ( and MAX 10) certification, so UA's MAX 8s and MAX 9s will / may not be impacted but expect more MAX news / confusion in the future
The original deadline, the end of 2022, was set to allow the MAX 7 and 10 to complete certification under the old rules. Then COVID, then the delays from fixing the MCAS situation, and it doesn't look like they'll make it. I don't think rushing certification would be productive.

As a 737 pilot, I do not want to switch between airplanes with EICAS and airplanes, both NGs and MAX 8/9, which have the existing recall-panel design for crew alerting. It would change the flow on several of our normal checklists and ALL of our non-normal checklists. Switching back and forth between the two does not promote safety. Crews will make more mistakes because of switching back and forth.
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Old Oct 15, 2022, 11:10 pm
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
Switching back and forth between the two does not promote safety. Crews will make more mistakes because of switching back and forth.
Is it possible that they won't allow a common type rating between the two? Maybe there will have to be 2 pools of pilots?
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Old Oct 16, 2022, 8:17 am
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Originally Posted by FN-GM
Is it possible that they won't allow a common type rating between the two? Maybe there will have to be 2 pools of pilots?
That would be up to the FAA. If they do it that way, expect most of the 737-10 orders to either cancel or convert to the 737-9 and the 737-7 orders convert to 737-8.
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Old Dec 21, 2022, 4:28 pm
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Congress is going to give Boeing a waiver on the new 737 MAX variants.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-10-unchanged/

Some heavy lobbying by pilot and unions employing Boeing factory workers wrote to congressional leaders to support the waiver.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-10-unchanged/

One pilot union opposed it.

Opposition included survivors of those who died in one of the two crashes:

In an interview, Michael Stumo, whose daughter Samya Rose Stumo died on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, called Congress’ action “a total swamp move.”

He said Congress is “reducing safety with pure political power and enabling Boeing’s profits over safety, without hearings, without data, without scrutiny.”

In March, two technical experts critical of Boeing sent a proposal to the Senate Commerce Committee, chaired by Cantwell, for a crew alerting system upgrade they deemed acceptably safe at a likely cost of at least $1 billion to the jet maker. That proposal failed to gain support.
Instead, the bill will require Boeing to retrofit existing Max aircraft with some enhancements in the Max 10:

​​​​​​​While the crew-alerting system upgrade won’t be required, the language in the new bill includes a condition proposed earlier this month by U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell that will require all airlines to retrofit two specific safety enhancements.

Boeing developed those enhancements for the MAX 10. The bill requires them to be retrofitted to the MAX 7 and to the two earlier models already certified and in service, the MAX 8 and MAX 9 jets.

The amendment gives Boeing three years after the MAX 10 is certified to retrofit those safety enhancements to all models of the MAX, after which none can be operated without them.
The bill requires Boeing to bear the cost of the retrofits.
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Old Apr 15, 2023, 10:04 am
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Boeing revealed yet another problem with the 737 MAX program, as a part from a supplier used in 737 MAX aircraft delivered since the grounding back in 2019 are said to fail at meeting FAA standards.

Only days after reporting a surge in 737 MAX jet deliveries last month, Boeing revealed Thursday deliveries of the aircraft will be substantially slowed due to a new defect in a part from supplier Spirit AeroSystems.

The defect will require rework on finished MAXs not yet delivered as well as those currently on the assembly line.
Spirit said the newly discovered problem may date back four years, and so could potentially affect most of the planes built since the jet was grounded in 2019 after two fatal crashes.


“This is not an immediate safety of flight issue and the in-service fleet can continue operating safely,” Boeing said in a statement. “However, the issue will likely affect a significant number of undelivered 737 MAX airplanes, both in production and in storage.”
https://archive.is/QTsZh#selection-2045.0-2061.263

So they won't use the defective part any more and will rework every aircraft not yet delivered.

But existing aircraft with the defective part will continue to operate.
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Old Apr 15, 2023, 11:32 am
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I don't understand how it doesn't impact flight safety if they have to fix it before delivering more planes. Is it just that something can degrade more quickly over time and will require maintenance earlier?

Also, this apparently only impacts (from UA's perspective) the MAX 8, as the 3M9 uses a different supplier for the part.
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Old Apr 15, 2023, 11:43 am
  #475  
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Originally Posted by PsiFighter37
I don't understand how it doesn't impact flight safety if they have to fix it before delivering more planes. Is it just that something can degrade more quickly over time and will require maintenance earlier?...
There is a difference between knowingly delivering an issue vs going back to repair an issue the FAA has agreed is not a safety issue (perhaps an issue to watch and inspect from time to time).
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Old May 9, 2023, 10:37 pm
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MAX 10 Update

In response to a Ryanair order today for as many as 300 MAX 10s, the WSJ reports, "Boeing CEO David Calhoun said Tuesday that Boeing expected the MAX 10 would win regulatory approval in 2024." I'm sure UA is hoping this means "early 2024."
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