Mar 11, 2019, 12:37 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Now that UA MAX flights have resumed, see UA statement at All about the Boeing 737 MAX: Safety, status and more
================================================== ========
The first B737 MAX, an enhanced version of the B737 family, started service in May 2016, a MAX 8. MAX 9 entered service March 2018. (UA service start date??)
The MAX series was ground in March 2019 after two incidents involve the MCAS; Lion Air Flight 610 - Wikipedia and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 - Wikipedia
United did not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it had operated the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) were grounded. Boeing in conjunction with FAA, EASA, Transport Canada and other national air safety organizations entered into a cause investigation, into the MCAS operation, into if sufficient training had been provided and into if the original certification process had been sufficient rigid.
Preliminary Summary of the FAA’s Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF).
The FAA (18 Nov 2020), EASA (24 Nov 2020) and Transport Canada (17 Dec 2020) have re-certified the MAX 8 & MAX 9 for commercial flight
Boeing 737 MAX certification - Wikipedia
AA resumed use of MAX8 on 29 Dec 2020
UA plans to resumes service of the MAX9 in Feb 2020 (from IAH and DEN)
Airlines have resumed taking deliveries of the MAX 8 & 9
================
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Now that UA MAX flights have resumed, see UA statement at All about the Boeing 737 MAX: Safety, status and more
If you do not wish to fly on a MAX aircraft, we will rebook you at no charge or refund your ticket. This includes domestic ticket changes, Basic Economy tickets and international tickets if you move from one of our MAX flights to one of our non-MAX United or United Express flights. If your original itinerary involved another carrier, we will attempt to rebook you on your original airline on a non-MAX flight as well.
When we begin to fly the MAX once again, you should feel completely confident that we have taken all the necessary steps to confirm that our 737 MAX aircraft are as safe as any of our aircraft flying today. Safety has been and always will be our top priority, and it’s something we will never compromise for any reason.
When we begin to fly the MAX once again, you should feel completely confident that we have taken all the necessary steps to confirm that our 737 MAX aircraft are as safe as any of our aircraft flying today. Safety has been and always will be our top priority, and it’s something we will never compromise for any reason.
We will waive any applicable change fees or difference in fare if your rebooked flight:
If you don’t meet these conditions but still want to rebook, you may use the value of your ticket to rebook on another flight without a change fee, but a fare difference may apply based on the fare rules of the ticket.
- Has the same origin and destination as your original flight
- Is in your originally ticketed cabin (any booking code)
- Is rescheduled for the same day or one day earlier or later than your original travel date
- Is a United or United Express flight only
If you don’t meet these conditions but still want to rebook, you may use the value of your ticket to rebook on another flight without a change fee, but a fare difference may apply based on the fare rules of the ticket.
READ BEFORE POSTING
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
The first B737 MAX, an enhanced version of the B737 family, started service in May 2016, a MAX 8. MAX 9 entered service March 2018. (UA service start date??)
The MAX series was ground in March 2019 after two incidents involve the MCAS; Lion Air Flight 610 - Wikipedia and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 - Wikipedia
United did not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it had operated the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) were grounded. Boeing in conjunction with FAA, EASA, Transport Canada and other national air safety organizations entered into a cause investigation, into the MCAS operation, into if sufficient training had been provided and into if the original certification process had been sufficient rigid.
Preliminary Summary of the FAA’s Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF).
The FAA (18 Nov 2020), EASA (24 Nov 2020) and Transport Canada (17 Dec 2020) have re-certified the MAX 8 & MAX 9 for commercial flight
Boeing 737 MAX certification - Wikipedia
AA resumed use of MAX8 on 29 Dec 2020
UA plans to resumes service of the MAX9 in Feb 2020 (from IAH and DEN)
Airlines have resumed taking deliveries of the MAX 8 & 9
================
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
B737MAX-Cleared by FAA to resume passenger flights;UA MAX flights resumed 11 Feb 2020
Jul 3, 2020, 9:07 pm
#16
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
These are just preliminary tests flights - there is a ton of work to be done before commercial service is even on the drawing board. All the upcoming incomplete systems revisions need countless test flights at the regulation level, then the airlines will do their own test flights and simulations - and when new stuff is found, then back to the drawing board. No airline is in the mood to take deliveries of anything now, even if it was a perfect airplane. I am still holding firm, no MAX flights until 2021 at the earliest.
Jul 3, 2020, 9:09 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Rather disconcerting that the test flights were concluded after little more than a week.
Jul 3, 2020, 9:43 pm
#18
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,135
So from here we have:
1. weeks to possibly months (depending on the virus impact to FAA staffing) for data evaluation
2. confirmation of currently pending changes to be implemented and validated
3. new changes required from data gathered in this week's flights - there could be significant rework required taking many more months, moderate rework taking many weeks, or nothing at all
4. review of final design documents by the FAA - and every other country who wants to regulate the use of this aircraft in their airspace - any one of whom could still object
5. review of updated training requirements and flight manuals - then open these documents for public review and comment - which could be another long delay if any objections arise - also Boeing will have SIM time requirements as part of the training class rammed down their throats, so all MAX pilots have significant retraining to finish only after these documents are approved
6. writing, public review and issuance of ADs
7. corrective action on all already built in-service aircraft to comply with ADs - this alone could take months depending on fleet size, maintenance availability and staffing, and where these aircraft are scattered and stored
8. corrective action in parallel on all non-delivered aircraft to comply with new ADs
9. lifting of grounding order by the FAA upon confirmation that all ADs are implemented - other countries to lift their own grounding orders at their convenience
So let's not kid ourselves that we did a couple flights, all is good, and we're looking at a few weeks to get these aircraft flying commercially again - and I am not even addressing the marketing hurdle the airlines will need to deal with to get people on board without making a fuss
Jul 3, 2020, 10:02 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SRQ, PDX
Programs: UA 1 MM, AA, DL
Posts: 929
So let's not kid ourselves that we did a couple flights, all is good, and we're looking at a few weeks to get these aircraft flying commercially again - and I am not even addressing the marketing hurdle the airlines will need to deal with to get people on board without making a fuss
Jul 3, 2020, 10:19 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Jul 3, 2020, 10:48 pm
#21
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Florida
Programs: United 1K, Marriott Ambassador, Hilton Gold
Posts: 673
Sure there may be some sensationalized reporting as they get closer to the first flights back for pax, but as soon as there’s another COVID record, protest, killer bees, you name it, the vast majority of people have forgotten.
Jul 4, 2020, 12:26 am
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,135
Let's see how people react to that - of course if 10,000 people a day are dropping like flies from coronavirus, then the MAX won't matter much at all - it's a future news cycle we can't predict at this point, but I hope the world calms down enough by then so the MAX can occupy the top of the page without anything worse in the world to push the story lower.
Jul 4, 2020, 4:56 am
#23
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Haze gray and underway
Programs: UA 1K 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott 'clink clink' Titanium
Posts: 1,783
It will be re-certified, that was never in doubt.
What I doubt is that it will be this year. And even if it is, those planes have been stored for over a year and since demand is basically non existent, it makes zero sense to reactivate them and put them through the checks they’ll need to get flying, especially when airlines are grounding planes. Plus the MAX is still an albatross to Joe Q.Public. Think of the headlines:
”United Airlines to fly 737-MAX, despite COVID-19 pandemic”
What I doubt is that it will be this year. And even if it is, those planes have been stored for over a year and since demand is basically non existent, it makes zero sense to reactivate them and put them through the checks they’ll need to get flying, especially when airlines are grounding planes. Plus the MAX is still an albatross to Joe Q.Public. Think of the headlines:
”United Airlines to fly 737-MAX, despite COVID-19 pandemic”
Last edited by Dublin_rfk; Jul 4, 2020 at 5:01 am
Jul 4, 2020, 10:32 am
#24
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,101
For how long did the public refuse to set foot on an A330 after the AF crash? I don’t think the public at large is going to care or if they care about anything, it will be about getting sick with COVID-19 from being on a plane.
Jul 4, 2020, 1:18 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
That was a single A330 and didn't receive anywhere near the amount of press that the 737MAX scandal has. It was also before a lot of social media platforms were in use.
Jul 4, 2020, 2:20 pm
#26
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,135
Jul 4, 2020, 2:43 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
Posts: 20,061
Or and some outlets are already amping up Swine Flu II...
David
Jul 4, 2020, 3:22 pm
#28
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,738
It seems we have had this post-MAX resumption discussion multiple times, will general public use the aircraft or will they stay away. Pretty much the same posters, saying / disagreeing with the same repetitive arguments. None knows the answer but eventually, the answer will reveal itself. Having the discussion the first or second time was fine BUT is there any purpose to having yet another go around - on a presently unanswerable issue??
At this point, if new folks want to raise the topic, fine, but unless something new is introduced, let's avoid repetitive discussion by the same small group.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
At this point, if new folks want to raise the topic, fine, but unless something new is introduced, let's avoid repetitive discussion by the same small group.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Jul 4, 2020, 3:35 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Umm no, these were flights to evaluate the currently required list of changes that were pending from Boeing - from here, the data will be evaluated, additional changes are still pending completion, and new changes may be required based on the data gathered from these flights.
So from here we have:
1. weeks to possibly months (depending on the virus impact to FAA staffing) for data evaluation
2. confirmation of currently pending changes to be implemented and validated
3. new changes required from data gathered in this week's flights - there could be significant rework required taking many more months, moderate rework taking many weeks, or nothing at all
4. review of final design documents by the FAA - and every other country who wants to regulate the use of this aircraft in their airspace - any one of whom could still object
5. review of updated training requirements and flight manuals - then open these documents for public review and comment - which could be another long delay if any objections arise - also Boeing will have SIM time requirements as part of the training class rammed down their throats, so all MAX pilots have significant retraining to finish only after these documents are approved
6. writing, public review and issuance of ADs
7. corrective action on all already built in-service aircraft to comply with ADs - this alone could take months depending on fleet size, maintenance availability and staffing, and where these aircraft are scattered and stored
8. corrective action in parallel on all non-delivered aircraft to comply with new ADs
9. lifting of grounding order by the FAA upon confirmation that all ADs are implemented - other countries to lift their own grounding orders at their convenience
So let's not kid ourselves that we did a couple flights, all is good, and we're looking at a few weeks to get these aircraft flying commercially again - and I am not even addressing the marketing hurdle the airlines will need to deal with to get people on board without making a fuss
So from here we have:
1. weeks to possibly months (depending on the virus impact to FAA staffing) for data evaluation
2. confirmation of currently pending changes to be implemented and validated
3. new changes required from data gathered in this week's flights - there could be significant rework required taking many more months, moderate rework taking many weeks, or nothing at all
4. review of final design documents by the FAA - and every other country who wants to regulate the use of this aircraft in their airspace - any one of whom could still object
5. review of updated training requirements and flight manuals - then open these documents for public review and comment - which could be another long delay if any objections arise - also Boeing will have SIM time requirements as part of the training class rammed down their throats, so all MAX pilots have significant retraining to finish only after these documents are approved
6. writing, public review and issuance of ADs
7. corrective action on all already built in-service aircraft to comply with ADs - this alone could take months depending on fleet size, maintenance availability and staffing, and where these aircraft are scattered and stored
8. corrective action in parallel on all non-delivered aircraft to comply with new ADs
9. lifting of grounding order by the FAA upon confirmation that all ADs are implemented - other countries to lift their own grounding orders at their convenience
So let's not kid ourselves that we did a couple flights, all is good, and we're looking at a few weeks to get these aircraft flying commercially again - and I am not even addressing the marketing hurdle the airlines will need to deal with to get people on board without making a fuss
Jul 4, 2020, 4:12 pm
#30
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Haze gray and underway
Programs: UA 1K 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott 'clink clink' Titanium
Posts: 1,783
