Trying to understand nonsensical pricing
Feb 24, 2019, 8:16 pm
#31
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Welcome to Canada, where this is normal. YYZ to Hawaii in F is usually sub-$600 each way, and you can even route EWR-HNL.
Feb 24, 2019, 10:10 pm
#32
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Feb 25, 2019, 5:45 am
#33
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Of course they limit the cheap inventory pretty strictly. Inventory is based on value (hurdle rates/bid prices/leg displacement costs/etc). OGG-DEN may be open in the lowest booking class because fares are high and inventory valuation is high while OGG-DEN-YYZ may be closed by 4-5 booking classes because the system knows fares are low. These systems are extremely sophisticated and the cheap OGG-YYZ fares will only be available when hurdle rates are on the floor and UA would take anything on either leg.
Feb 25, 2019, 7:08 am
#34
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Feb 25, 2019, 8:11 am
#35
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Most likely Reasons:
1. Because they can (No competition on A-C).
2. Because they must (A-H and/or H-C has competition)
Other possible reasons:
1. Computer algorithm got faulty data
2. Computer algorithm hasn't been updated for 30 yrs
3. Computer algorithm is actually a trained monkey randomly typing in numbers
Lesson: Don't bother trying to figure it out
1. Because they can (No competition on A-C).
2. Because they must (A-H and/or H-C has competition)
Other possible reasons:
1. Computer algorithm got faulty data
2. Computer algorithm hasn't been updated for 30 yrs
3. Computer algorithm is actually a trained monkey randomly typing in numbers
Lesson: Don't bother trying to figure it out
Feb 25, 2019, 10:48 am
#36
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Also, many of the OGG-DEN tickets were basic economy, but shockingly the OGG-DEN-YYZ ticket wasn’t. It was full economy for ~$120 per leg.
Also I bought multiple tickets at this price so it didn’t seem to be terribly restricted.
Feb 25, 2019, 11:23 am
#37
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There's a reason that the cheapest published close-in (less than 14 day advance purchase) DEN->NRT business class nonstop exceeds $16,000 roundtrip when there are perfectly adequate connecting itineraries available for less than $5,000. Heck, even the >50 day advance purchase fare is over $10,000.
Feb 25, 2019, 11:27 am
#38
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More to the point, it's not like YYZ is a quick trip from DEN. Most DEN-based travelers would have no idea these fares exist, and would have no use for them if they did. Even someone who was willing to use hidden-city ticketing to try to get the better price on the return might balk at flying 1300 miles in the wrong direction to start their Hawaiian vacation.
Feb 25, 2019, 12:10 pm
#39
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Yes, many of my DEN-based travelers will happily pay a 556% premium for the nonstop.
There's a reason that the cheapest published close-in (less than 14 day advance purchase) DEN->NRT business class nonstop exceeds $16,000 roundtrip when there are perfectly adequate connecting itineraries available for less than $5,000. Heck, even the >50 day advance purchase fare is over $10,000.
There's a reason that the cheapest published close-in (less than 14 day advance purchase) DEN->NRT business class nonstop exceeds $16,000 roundtrip when there are perfectly adequate connecting itineraries available for less than $5,000. Heck, even the >50 day advance purchase fare is over $10,000.
curious b/c my original scenario isn't a hidden city situation nor a circuitous routing...the routing is simply A-Hub-C, no A-C exists, and just noted that pricing the ticket as A-Hub + Hub-C was substantially cheaper than the single PNR. Assuming the expensive PNR exists b/c Corporate clients book that, but also assume they must be getting >10% discount as part of corporate agreement as no business will survive in the long run if they are consciously paying 100% premium on their airfares for identical routing.
Feb 25, 2019, 12:24 pm
#40
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Because UA is flexing their pricing muscles in DEN so aggressively, we've moved some of our DEN-based travelers to PassPlus Exec, which is fixed price based on zones that roughly correlate to distance.
Feb 25, 2019, 12:36 pm
#41
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There are much cheaper roundtrip fares on this route and they available from $686 in BE and $776 in main cabin (T fares). The legacy airlines still have numerous routes with roundtrip fare filings where a roundtrip purchase is cheaper than two one-way's for the same flights. The vast majority of flyer's are buying seats on these flights at the roundtrip fare rates, not the one-way rates. The one-way fares are aimed at price-insensitive business flyers who are looking at non-stop convenience rather than price and will buy one-way tickets at times because they don't know when they will return. Below are roundtrip fares from Google flights for UA non-stop flights between DEN and OGG. As you can see, this shows a very different picture than the one-way pricing.
Last edited by xliioper; Feb 25, 2019 at 12:48 pm
Feb 25, 2019, 1:46 pm
#42
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More to the point, it's not like YYZ is a quick trip from DEN. Most DEN-based travelers would have no idea these fares exist, and would have no use for them if they did. Even someone who was willing to use hidden-city ticketing to try to get the better price on the return might balk at flying 1300 miles in the wrong direction to start their Hawaiian vacation.
DEN-OGG: 17.5k Singapore Miles, upgraded to E+ with my UA status
OGG-DEN-YYZ: $230 with GPU applied (but not confirmed) for the overwater portion. Still debating weather to go to Toronto or not
Regarding Sykes' comments on Narita fares, they really are charging an arm and a leg for an inferior (though direct) product. No polaris lounge, no polaris seats, etc.
I originated my ticket in a smaller market to visit my folks, then did a 23 hour layover in Denver so I could go home, then took the direct in J r/t for $~3k, and flew direct back to DEN. At this point, a quick hour flight is still worth $10k to me.
I'm fully aware how people value their time, etc. I do wonder if a DEN-NRT saves that much time over a DEN-(LAX/SFO/SEA)-HND with a decent connection. We could be talking minutes here instead of hours, with some added hassle no doubt.
Feb 25, 2019, 1:49 pm
#43
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I'm sure that there are some people paying for that premium for the DEN-NRT nonstop. Even at a 40% discount, it's still a hefty chunk of change though.
Feb 25, 2019, 2:30 pm
#44
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They're on PassPlus Flex so they're paying slightly less than that--2-5% discount for most domestic itineraries, up to 20% for some international itineraries--but that's not enough to meaningfully change the economics. Many of my DEN-based travelers are executives and other individuals whose time is far more valuable than the fare premium.
Because UA is flexing their pricing muscles in DEN so aggressively, we've moved some of our DEN-based travelers to PassPlus Exec, which is fixed price based on zones that roughly correlate to distance.
Because UA is flexing their pricing muscles in DEN so aggressively, we've moved some of our DEN-based travelers to PassPlus Exec, which is fixed price based on zones that roughly correlate to distance.
my cohort is about as "executive" as they come and all I can think is that if you really have execs who willing/knowingly pay 2x the rate for the SAME routing (but for 1 PNR) please share the name of the companies so that i can short them
There are much cheaper roundtrip fares on this route and they available from $686 in BE and $776 in main cabin (T fares). The legacy airlines still have numerous routes with roundtrip fare filings where a roundtrip purchase is cheaper than two one-way's for the same flights. The vast majority of flyer's are buying seats on these flights at the roundtrip fare rates, not the one-way rates. The one-way fares are aimed at price-insensitive business flyers who are looking at non-stop convenience rather than price and will buy one-way tickets at times because they don't know when they will return. Below are roundtrip fares from Google flights for UA non-stop flights between DEN and OGG. As you can see, this shows a very different picture than the one-way pricing.
(A->HUB->C) = 2x [(A->HUB)+(HUB->C)]
and again, not really a complaint, nor am i particularly anxious over splitting to 2 PNRs...genuinely interested in the rationale.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 25, 2019 at 3:19 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Feb 26, 2019, 11:57 pm
#45
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Yes, many of my DEN-based travelers will happily pay a 556% premium for the nonstop.
There's a reason that the cheapest published close-in (less than 14 day advance purchase) DEN->NRT business class nonstop exceeds $16,000 roundtrip when there are perfectly adequate connecting itineraries available for less than $5,000. Heck, even the >50 day advance purchase fare is over $10,000.
There's a reason that the cheapest published close-in (less than 14 day advance purchase) DEN->NRT business class nonstop exceeds $16,000 roundtrip when there are perfectly adequate connecting itineraries available for less than $5,000. Heck, even the >50 day advance purchase fare is over $10,000.