Trying to understand nonsensical pricing

Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:42 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
There is absolutely a rationale to airline ticket pricing. Our “rational” is not the airlines’ “rational”.
100% true. "I don't understand X" is not the same as "X is irrational." It's purely a case of not having all the data and/or experience that the other party has.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 8:23 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by STS-134
There is no rationale for airline ticket pricing.
Yes, there is. You go on to explain it yourself:

They do it because they can. If they figure out that the market can bear a higher price for a ticket from A to B compared to a ticket from A to C via B, then they will charge more for A to B than A to C via B.
Originally Posted by pruss2ny
A to Hub routing costs $200
Hub to C routing costs $500
A to C (routing through Hub) costs $1400.

genuinely curious if this is a bug or if there is a rationale for this pricing.
It is not a bug. The rationale is that the airline has determined that the market will support a $1400 fare from A to C, which is what it is selling. That the routing happens to pass through B based on its route structure is irrelevant (to the airline). It could just have easily have passed through X, Y or Z.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 22, 2019 at 10:20 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Feb 23, 2019, 12:27 pm
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Originally Posted by expressboy
If both the tickets are on UA you should book them separately. I have never had an issue with checking bags through or getting reaccomodated due to delayed flights even on separate tickets. For your peace of mind look for ~3hrs to connect at the hub if one of the legs is international.
Another suggestion if you go this route is on your outbound, book an overnight stay at the connecting hub. This makes it much more likely that you'll not miss the long-haul flight, where the next option very possibly is the next day. On the way back, a missed connection is often much less of an issue: you're going home, so you don't have non-refundable hotels, tours, and other plans to worry about, and there are likely multiple flights a day back to your home base or another nearby airport.
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Old Feb 23, 2019, 12:51 pm
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These MIT OpenCourse classes can help; I found it very interesting how airlines set prices:

Airline Management
Revenue Management I
Revenue Management II
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Old Feb 23, 2019, 1:13 pm
  #20  
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I found a fare that has no reason or rhyme to it

I want to fly one way SEA YVR

UA's fare is over USD $200.00 plus the tax

If I book it as SEA SFO YVR the fare is USD $52.00 plus the tax
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Old Feb 23, 2019, 1:35 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by sfo
I found a fare that has no reason or rhyme to it

I want to fly one way SEA YVR

UA's fare is over USD $200.00 plus the tax

If I book it as SEA SFO YVR the fare is USD $52.00 plus the tax
Some people value non-stops.
Some people value their time. (less than an hour vs over 5 hours) But some like their MR -- but they are a minority.
There are different competitive pressures on the various segments.
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Old Feb 23, 2019, 1:47 pm
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Originally Posted by sfo
I found a fare that has no reason or rhyme to it

I want to fly one way SEA YVR

UA's fare is over USD $200.00 plus the tax

If I book it as SEA SFO YVR the fare is USD $52.00 plus the tax
As has been said above, the fact that you don't understand the reason doesn't mean there isn't one.

Looking at one of the days that fare is available, UA is $82 total. Delta and Alaska both have direct flights for $73, and Air Canada is $84.

United knows that nobody in their right might is going to pay $200+ to fly via SFO. Some people will just pick the lower fare, but others might be happy to pay a little more to fly United for whatever reason, so they'll take your $82 to fill a seat that they likely decided they weren't going to be able to fill anyway and fly you via SFO.

United's options are "Charge $300 and don't sell any seats" or "Charge $82 and sell a few". If they thought their planes were going to be on full on that day they'd probably pick option 1 and save the seats to see to people flying SEA-SFO (for $200 as you said), but if they've predicted they'll have spare seats they might as well flog a few off for $82 and at least make something from them...

This is exactly why Hidden City Ticketing is a thing - people realize they can buy SEA-SFO-YVR for $82, but just fly to SFO. (And then get to the airport and get denied check-in because they don't have a visa/eTA/etc for Canada and blame the airline as they were only planning to fly to SFO anyway...)
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Old Feb 23, 2019, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by sfo
UA's fare is over USD $200.00 plus the tax
Consider yourself lucky!

I recently found a UA P fare EWR-PEK R/T for $12'939.00 (CA fare was $22'696.00).
I've booked the same P class flight on UA for ~$2'700.00 in the past.

It's all relative.
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Old Feb 24, 2019, 12:15 pm
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Originally Posted by pruss2ny
A to Hub routing costs $200
Hub to C routing costs $500
A to C (routing through Hub) costs $1400.

genuinely curious if this is a bug or if there is a rationale for this pricing. Had some issue with this maybe 6-7years ago, but suddenly am noticing it to be occurring much more frequently...specifically when trying to book international routes. Obviously if I have to connect to arrive in (say) Hong Kong, I want the airline to acknowledge contractually that my end destination in HKG, in case my flight to the hub is delayed, but not sure its worth doubling the ticket price.
How does it price if you use Multicity itinerary?
Segment 1 A - Hub
Segment 2 Hub - C

Does it come out as 700, 1400, or something in between (or higher)?
Is this for a one way, or Round Trip?
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Old Feb 24, 2019, 2:25 pm
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Originally Posted by docbert
As has been said above, the fact that you don't understand the reason doesn't mean there isn't one.
True, but as has also been noted, just because they have a rationale based on data does not necessarily mean that it works. Sure, it likely does a lot of the time, but sometimes the sssumptions are wrong, and I think instances of that have been seen as well.
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Old Feb 24, 2019, 3:35 pm
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Here's a good one:

April 7
OGG-DEN in economy, $1,329

April 7
OGG-DEN-YYZ in economy, $239

I get "markets" and "demand" but this is bananas. ADD an additional international flight at ticket price goes down by 82% or $1,090.

Totally bonkers
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Old Feb 24, 2019, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by xzh445
How does it price if you use Multicity itinerary?
Segment 1 A - Hub
Segment 2 Hub - C

Does it come out as 700, 1400, or something in between (or higher)?
Is this for a one way, or Round Trip?
I did this for OGG-DEN-ABQ, and multi-city came out much lower, even though it was a 3-hour connection on the exact same itinerary.

The numbers in first class were something like:

OGG-ABQ via DEN $1,400

OGG-DEN + DEN - ABQ (same exact flights and itinerary) $777

Was flabbergasted
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Old Feb 24, 2019, 4:54 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by dval44
Here's a good one:

April 7
OGG-DEN in economy, $1,329

April 7
OGG-DEN-YYZ in economy, $239

I get "markets" and "demand" but this is bananas. ADD an additional international flight at ticket price goes down by 82% or $1,090.

Totally bonkers
OGG-DEN: They're the only nonstop, so they have a competitive advantage.

OGG-YYZ: Lots of different one stop options you can take, UA lacks a competitive advantage.

Airline revenue management: make money where you have advantages, take what you can get everywhere else.
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Old Feb 24, 2019, 6:04 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by dval44
I did this for OGG-DEN-ABQ, and multi-city came out much lower, even though it was a 3-hour connection on the exact same itinerary.

The numbers in first class were something like:

OGG-ABQ via DEN $1,400

OGG-DEN + DEN - ABQ (same exact flights and itinerary) $777

Was flabbergasted
i always check multi city as well. Not just because of pricing like this (where the multi-city search prices are likely an error that isnt verifying married segment availability), but also because UA.com also inexplicably often doesnt show what are standard connections through typical and not out of the way hubs on standard point to point searches.

The only way to truly verify you are getting all the possible options are to either do the multi-city searches via reasonable connecting hubs on UA.com or to use Google Flights or an OTA, where these reasonable options do tend to show up properly.
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Old Feb 24, 2019, 7:08 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
Some people value non-stops.
Some people value their time. (less than an hour vs over 5 hours) But some like their MR -- but they are a minority.
There are different competitive pressures on the various segments.
I work in the field service industry for industrial power. Since we bill internally at $140/hour, it is usually better to take a (sometimes significantly) more expensive flight to save some time. Just depends on what you, or whomever is paying for the ticket, value.
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