Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

UA rules on electronic devices allowed below 10,000 ft, while landing or taking off??

UA rules on electronic devices allowed below 10,000 ft, while landing or taking off??

    Hide Wikipost
Old Mar 13, 19, 3:23 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Wiki Link
There may a formal rule on devices over 2 lbs but the most common observation is physical keyboards is what many FAs use to determine acceptability below 10,000 ft.
--- Keyboard - not allowed below 10,000 ft
--- No keyboard and does not appear to be too large, OK below 10,000 ft
FAA has a rule no more than 3 lbs in the seatback storage area.

Originally Posted by fezzington View Post
FA manual says "Use of small, lightweight PEDs (e.g. Apple iPad, Samsung Galaxy Tablet, Microsoft surface, etc) is permitted gate-to-gate on UA flights..." Anything under 2lbs may be placed in a pocket, a seatback pocket, or held -- it may not be left unsecured on an adjacent empty seat. Anything over 2lbs must be stowed in an approved carryon baggage location. ....
Print Wikipost

Old Sep 16, 17, 9:34 am
  #46  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Navajo Nation, Northern Arizona (ABQ, PHX, LAS)
Programs: RCC: SC; BC: M.Ed.; UA: PG; DL: GM
Posts: 12,388
Originally Posted by itsMoe View Post
See, this makes perfect sense. Why can't they just explain that, instead of coming up with ridiculous stories such as "they will surge during takeoff because the engines are running at full power", as an FA recently told me...
I was on a United flight just a few days ago when the purser announced "...electronics must be unplugged during taxi, takeoff, and landing because we don't want people tripping over those cords if we have to evacuate...".
kale73 is offline  
Old Sep 16, 17, 3:57 pm
  #47  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by DenverBrian View Post
That's a great article and emphasizes my point perfectly.

Note that stowage of tablets/laptops isn't in their top three. I doubt it's in their top 20. My point was, let's focus on the low hanging fruit first.

.
To be fair, the article is from 1996. Laptops weren't as widespread, and tablets didn't exist.

As for low-hanging fruit, what's easier to implement: retrofitting all the planes with new seats etc, or having people put away their laptops?
username likes this.
itsMoe is offline  
Old Sep 16, 17, 6:08 pm
  #48  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Proud Charter Member of the OUM
Posts: 23,177
Originally Posted by itsMoe View Post
To be fair, the article is from 1996. Laptops weren't as widespread, and tablets didn't exist.

As for low-hanging fruit, what's easier to implement: retrofitting all the planes with new seats etc, or having people put away their laptops?
Is the criteria here what's easy or what saves lives?

By your logic, it's incredibly easy to just require that no one use laptops or tablets until 10,000 feet. Or at all.
DenverBrian is online now  
Old Sep 16, 17, 6:13 pm
  #49  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 9,969
Originally Posted by DenverBrian View Post
Is the criteria here what's easy or what saves lives?

By your logic, it's incredibly easy to just require that no one use laptops or tablets until 10,000 feet. Or at all.
I think that would be the prudent thing to do - at least during taxi (since FAs can't really check right before takeoff), takeoff and landing. It is clear and simple to enforce.

Unfortunately, the cat is out of the bag so this won't happen until after a bad incident where these things cause big casualties.
username is offline  
Old Sep 16, 17, 7:23 pm
  #50  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 6,866
Originally Posted by DenverBrian View Post
By your logic, it's incredibly easy to just require that no one use laptops or tablets until 10,000 feet. Or at all.
Additionally, that's not how aviation is regulated.
  1. Passengers want to use their PEDs.
  2. Airlines want authorization to allow such use to accommodate customers.
  3. FAA approves use with conditions and restrictions that reasonably address identifiable threats that such use would introduce.

Forum members go about it differently. They see a regulation and compare and contrast with other policies and regulations and ask, "why not?"

If regulators were required to go back and reevaluate every existing regulation each time a new one was being considered nothing would ever get done. That's not part of the process. Rationalizing conflicting regulations, or at least those that handle similar situations differently, would be done as a completely separate set of rulemaking.
LarryJ is online now  
Old Sep 16, 17, 8:29 pm
  #51  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Proud Charter Member of the OUM
Posts: 23,177
Originally Posted by username View Post
I think that would be the prudent thing to do - at least during taxi (since FAs can't really check right before takeoff), takeoff and landing. It is clear and simple to enforce.

Unfortunately, the cat is out of the bag so this won't happen until after a bad incident where these things cause big casualties.
Or maybe it'll never happen at all. @:-)

Luckily, we live in a world where the odds of any kind of incident causing injury/death on commercial aircraft are quite small indeed.
DenverBrian is online now  
Old Sep 16, 17, 11:48 pm
  #52  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 9,969
Originally Posted by DenverBrian View Post
Or maybe it'll never happen at all.

Luckily, we live in a world where the odds of any kind of incident causing injury/death on commercial aircraft are quite small indeed.
Knock on wood...

Because of all the safety precautions and lessons learned over the years
username is offline  
Old Sep 17, 17, 12:19 am
  #53  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: DL GM, UA, B6, AA, WN, AS, AGR
Posts: 4,142
Going back to the keyboard vs no keyboard thing, I think it might have to do with the way you're holding your device. You're not holding your device as securely while you have a keyboard out and typing with one or more hands, whereas with a standalone tablet, you're holding it with at least one hand, and the other hand is free to impulsively grab onto it if you think you're about to lose grip. Not to mention that if it has a keyboard, people may be tempted to place the entire device on their lap instead of holding it as instructed.
diburning is offline  
Old Sep 17, 17, 7:48 am
  #54  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DSM
Programs: UA 1K, AA EP, DL GM, HH Dia, Marriott Gld, Hertz PC
Posts: 645
As to what is and what isn't a tablet ... I have a SurfacePro 3 and sometimes I'm working like crazy on it from the minute I sit down until at the gate. When FA questions me about it, I say less than 2 pounds and keyboard detaches (with demo), and they respond "Is so hard to tell these days." Then I say, tablet can't stand open on their own, either needs a case that props them open or a kickstand on the back of the tablet. Usually elicits "Good to know" kind of response.

Every once in a while they persist, and I just close and tuck away.

My favorite line ever from a FA "Per the FAA, if it is bigger than an iPAD it has to be off and away." I told her the FAA would never write a regulation naming a particular product to compare to.
dorisrpas is offline  
Old Sep 17, 17, 9:29 am
  #55  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 48,419
This is one where a bit of common sense and acting like an adult go a long way.

People think of all kinds of reasons to disobey simple rules which they don't like or don't think matter because they read an article by some guy who said something.

But, one of the reasons why US commercial aviation is so safe these days is that overall the rules make sense and are enforced uniformly.

The fact that you may see no difference does not mean anything. Imagine if the FA had to walk up the aisle and have a legal policy discussion with each passenger as to why each aspect of the departure safety requirements matters.

The 2-pound limit is, of course arbitrary. But, everything is arbitrary. Make it 2.1 pounds and someone will tell you that his 2.2 pound device is just 0.1 over.

If safety really mattered, all devices over a few ounces would be stowed for departure and landing and there would be strict weight limits for anything stuffed into the OH. But, that is not practical.

Unfortunately, aircraft are not buses. So, it's not possible to just pull over to the curb and give some numpty the boot. So, the rules are enforced by the crew and FAA gives wide latitude to oral crewmember instructions.
Often1 is offline  
Old Sep 17, 17, 9:57 am
  #56  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Programs: UA-GS 1MM), Hertz Pres Circle, Starriott Titanium)
Posts: 1,826
Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
This is one where a bit of common sense and acting like an adult go a long way.

People think of all kinds of reasons to disobey simple rules which they don't like or don't think matter because they read an article by some guy who said something.

But, one of the reasons why US commercial aviation is so safe these days is that overall the rules make sense and are enforced uniformly.

The fact that you may see no difference does not mean anything. Imagine if the FA had to walk up the aisle and have a legal policy discussion with each passenger as to why each aspect of the departure safety requirements matters.

The 2-pound limit is, of course arbitrary. But, everything is arbitrary. Make it 2.1 pounds and someone will tell you that his 2.2 pound device is just 0.1 over.

If safety really mattered, all devices over a few ounces would be stowed for departure and landing and there would be strict weight limits for anything stuffed into the OH. But, that is not practical.

Unfortunately, aircraft are not buses. So, it's not possible to just pull over to the curb and give some numpty the boot. So, the rules are enforced by the crew and FAA gives wide latitude to oral crewmember instructions.
I have not seen anyone here suggesting the use of a device over 2.0.... so I'm confused as to why this idea that people are trying to "get away" with something is coming from? Has anyone here suggested disobeying the rules?

Unless I misread this thread, not a single person here has suggested it is ok to use a device over 2.0 pounds during this critical phase of the flight.
LordHamster is offline  
Old Sep 17, 17, 10:07 am
  #57  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Proud Charter Member of the OUM
Posts: 23,177
Originally Posted by username View Post
Knock on wood...

Because of all the safety precautions and lessons learned over the years
Yes, most of the low-hanging fruit was taken care of years ago. But seat reinforcement, and lap/shoulder belts/airbags, and better clearance around exits, and changing the FA to pax ratios, are all much more lower hanging fruit than whether someone has his 2.1 pound laptop out at takeoff and landing.
DenverBrian is online now  
Old Sep 17, 17, 2:46 pm
  #58  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 6,866
Originally Posted by DenverBrian View Post
But seat reinforcement, and lap/shoulder belts/airbags, and better clearance around exits, and changing the FA to pax ratios, are all much more lower hanging fruit than whether someone has his 2.1 pound laptop out at takeoff and landing.
But that's not how aviation is regulated. When operators want to add PED policies the FAA does take that and say 'let's look at seat reinforcement, etc., instead'.

Similarly, enacting rules to allow PED use do not prevent changing in rules for seats, belts, and exits. They are unconnected in the rulemaking process.
LarryJ is online now  
Old Sep 17, 17, 3:52 pm
  #59  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Proud Charter Member of the OUM
Posts: 23,177
Originally Posted by LarryJ View Post
But that's not how aviation is regulated. When operators want to add PED policies the FAA does take that and say 'let's look at seat reinforcement, etc., instead'.

Similarly, enacting rules to allow PED use do not prevent changing in rules for seats, belts, and exits. They are unconnected in the rulemaking process.
Doesn't change one iota my opinion about how much energy, time, resources, and yes, IBB posts should be spent on who's got their laptop or tablet open on takeoff vs. what we should be doing to truly increase safety in the skies.
DenverBrian is online now  
Old Sep 17, 17, 4:11 pm
  #60  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO (temp YYZ)
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Tit, HH Diamond, Accor Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 34,079
Originally Posted by eng3 View Post
Trying to understand the scenario and put things in perspective. People actually tripped over a charger or charger cable? Were these chargers huge? Those chargers come loose just from light turbulence, I don't see them having enough friction strength to stay plugged in and actually trip someone. How much friction holds a charger cable to a device or power end? How can that be enough force to trip someone? I "trip" on my cables all the time. They don't actually trip me, the charger comes out of the outlet or the phone. It's not like the thick strap of an underseat bag. Did you have really cables that were wrapped around people's legs? How is this different than headphone cables in headphone jacks which are sometimes located in the same spot? And this tripping hazard is worse than tablets, books, dogs, etc all over the floor? I'm not saying it is impossible for someone to trip over a charger cable, but why focus on that one item when there seems to be so many other things that are much worse trip hazards. It should be based on risk, probability of occurrence, and impact. Even with the tripping, how long did it take for everyone to evac?
I have tripped over my own phone charge on a flight. And this was just me trying to use the lav. No emergency evacuation involved.

Originally Posted by dorisrpas View Post
As to what is and what isn't a tablet ... I have a SurfacePro 3 and sometimes I'm working like crazy on it from the minute I sit down until at the gate. When FA questions me about it, I say less than 2 pounds and keyboard detaches (with demo), and they respond "Is so hard to tell these days." Then I say, tablet can't stand open on their own, either needs a case that props them open or a kickstand on the back of the tablet. Usually elicits "Good to know" kind of response.
That may be how you define it, but it's not a real definition.

These days, the only difference between a tablet and a laptop is the marketing around it.

http://www.samsung.com/us/computing/chromebooks/

The title of that page is "Samsung Chromebooks: Ultra Light Tablet Laptops | Samsung US".

Tablet or laptop?

Or do each of those words define a set of a features, such that one device could be both?
DenverBrian likes this.
canadiancow is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: