Landing while sleeping?
#31
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This was UA and UA's safety & security policy, filed with FAA and therefore functionally required by FAA, is that seatbacks must be in their full upright position prior to landing. In this case the FA screwed up quite badly.
The rest of the debate as to whether this is a good policy is irrelevant.
The rest of the debate as to whether this is a good policy is irrelevant.
#32
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- in the last row
- no one is sitting in the seat group behind you if you are seated in an aisle seat
- no one is sitting directly behind you if you are sitting in a window seat
...
is simply not practical.
#33
Join Date: Dec 2010
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OP stated that he believed most fatalities were drownings of people who could not get their seatbelt off. If anything, the quote you provided supports OP’s case- if most survivors were seated, belted, and able to unbuckle- most non survivors didn’t meet one of those three things.
#34
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This was UA and UA's safety & security policy, filed with FAA and therefore functionally required by FAA, is that seatbacks must be in their full upright position prior to landing. In this case the FA screwed up quite badly.
The rest of the debate as to whether this is a good policy is irrelevant.
The rest of the debate as to whether this is a good policy is irrelevant.
Interesting point. I suppose there are UA rules and then there are FAA rules. I don't know how far a FA is required to go to enforce the rules. Or how far they have to ignore the rules to be negligent. I suppose that would be a jury question.
I haven’t done any additional research on this crash, but I don’t understand how the quote about survivors says anything to the fatalities.
OP stated that he believed most fatalities were drownings of people who could not get their seatbelt off. If anything, the quote you provided supports OP’s case- if most survivors were seated, belted, and able to unbuckle- most non survivors didn’t meet one of those three things.
OP stated that he believed most fatalities were drownings of people who could not get their seatbelt off. If anything, the quote you provided supports OP’s case- if most survivors were seated, belted, and able to unbuckle- most non survivors didn’t meet one of those three things.
#35
Join Date: May 2010
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I am flabbergasted by the accounts in this thread. That any UA crew would allow a passenger to land in the lay-flat position is mind-boggling [to me].
Simply can't recall ANY UA flight where they didn't check multiple times before landing that everyone was buckled in and in an upright seating-position.
Amazing.
#36
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I am flabbergasted by the accounts in this thread. That any UA crew would allow a passenger to land in the lay-flat position is mind-boggling [to me].
Simply can't recall ANY UA flight where they didn't check multiple times before landing that everyone was buckled in and in an upright seating-position.
Amazing.
#37
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Actually it has been tested - the safest position is laying down, or being in a reclining position, as the body can handle far more sudden G forces in a reclining position vs sitting upright - however - with everyone's seat in a reclined or flat position, getting out of the aircraft quickly and safely after the accident you survived by being in the reclining position, is infinitely more difficult for you and everyone else. The FAA decided that somewhat-reduced initial survival with everyone upright vs the chaos, injuries and death from trying to scramble over, under, around reclined seats, or being trapped in a damaged or burning aircraft, is the better option of the two.
#38
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Actually it has been tested - the safest position is laying down, or being in a reclining position, as the body can handle far more sudden G forces in a reclining position vs sitting upright - however - with everyone's seat in a reclined or flat position, getting out of the aircraft quickly and safely after the accident you survived by being in the reclining position, is infinitely more difficult for you and everyone else. The FAA decided that somewhat-reduced initial survival with everyone upright vs the chaos, injuries and death from trying to scramble over, under, around reclined seats, or being trapped in a damaged or burning aircraft, is the better option of the two.
I guess the problem with having 2 types of procedures (one first premium class,where you can lie flat, another for economy) is that it would just seem blatantly unfair and discriminatory. As in people up front can survive better than people in back.
#39
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United flies about 400,000 passengers a day. Surely a few seat backs slip through the cracks, as it is mostly a trivial matter (excepting that a lie-flat is egregious), and no flight attendant (nor any of us) perform at perfection. This was a mistake, but one incurring an infinitesimal risk.
#40
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There are no indications that this is the case here, but who knows--there are a number of reasonable explanations for how this could have happened that don't require indicting the flight attendants.
#41
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Not on UA (a domestic Chinese flight) but this guy was the worst - I think he was non-rev. I was one of the first to board this 7am flight, and he was already there, seat nearly flat, tray table out with food and drinks. This guy must be connected to the airlines, as FAs bent over backward and served to his every need, and took his unreasonable demands. Finally, an attentive FA helped move his seat to the sitting position as we taxied and lined up for take off. Not even a minute after in the air, he's back in the sleeping position, and finally the whole episode repeated when we landed. I would have removed him if I was the working for the airlines.
#42
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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The Business class seats on NZ long haul aircraft may be reclined for take off and landing...… they make that quite clear onboard. They can't be flat because they are "flip over" seats when being turned into the bed...but the full recline available is fine at any time.....
#43
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Actually it has been tested - the safest position is laying down, or being in a reclining position, as the body can handle far more sudden G forces in a reclining position vs sitting upright - however - with everyone's seat in a reclined or flat position, getting out of the aircraft quickly and safely after the accident you survived by being in the reclining position, is infinitely more difficult for you and everyone else. The FAA decided that somewhat-reduced initial survival with everyone upright vs the chaos, injuries and death from trying to scramble over, under, around reclined seats, or being trapped in a damaged or burning aircraft, is the better option of the two.
#44
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Please quote a source or two. If be very interested in reading about the details of this test
I can barely get out of a window as it is. When reclined I think if need every one out of the row to have any chance
Risk of occurrence is infinitesimal. I'd argue the o impact of an occurrence is not. Your could say the same thing about lap babies or not wearing seatbelts. Infinitesimal risk of occurrence, impact is not
Risk of occurrence is infinitesimal. I'd argue the o impact of an occurrence is not. Your could say the same thing about lap babies or not wearing seatbelts. Infinitesimal risk of occurrence, impact is not
#45
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Assuming there weren't extenuating circumstances that prevented the flight attendants from doing pre-landing checks (like turbulence), then it was a mistake that shouldn't have happened, but it's not a huge deal. The FAA and airline policies and procedures are designed under the assumption that they will be executed by humans, and that humans will make mistakes from time-to-time. It doesn't hurt to report any such issues so that if there is a pattern of mistakes then the pattern can be identified and addressed, but a single mistake on a single flight isn't the end of the world.