wxguy

There are hidden latches that allow the crew to disconnect the motors/devices, so the seat can be manually moved and locked upright. I've been in this situation! Once on a UA 777-200ER in GF, the motors failed. So the FA disconnected the motors, and any time I wanted to sit upright or lie down they had to manually do it for me. There were no in-between positions. It was annoying, but hey, things break. Yeah, I got some compensation.

If it's known in advance, usually the seat is blocked off. Once I saw an NRSA in such a blocked seat.

eng3

The seats are tested and certified (ie. 16G crash test) in a specific configuration (ie. upright). I suppose a manufacturer could go through the expense to design and test the seat in the lie flat configuration and get the FAA to certify it, then it would be acceptable. Ofcourse there are other factors, like if you were in the aisle seat and were blocking the window seat person's egress. Or in non-lie flat seats, the seat needs to be upright so that it does not block the egress for the person behind. The FA should check compliance prior to takeoff and landing. Bottom line, your FA(s) didn't do their job. I'd report the FA or at least the incident to customer service. After all, the FA's always say that their #1 priority is safety.

Now I've had many times where after the FA checks and sits down. Then, the person infront of me decides to recline their seat again. I guess I can't blame the FA for this. It is just the selfishness of the person infront of me putting his comfort above my safety.

mduell

If you are concerned about this (and I have no real opinion on if you should be or not), since it is a regulatory and safety issue, you could report it to the United CMO.

Gadot

Interesting discussion. I checked with a FA on Virgin that lives near me and she said that the FAA allows passengers to be flat (belted) on take off and landing as does Virgin. Maybe because it is not a US plane??

Also quantas is working on putting beds down in the cargo space

s0ssos

How is everybody so certain a upright seated position is safer than lying flat? Has anyone ever tested this?

username

I can see some smart aleck asking the FAs about this when they are told to sit upright

s0ssos

There are many stupid rules. Like having your seat not reclined in economy in the back row. How does this matter? The recline is just a few inches anyway, given we are in economy. There is nobody in back of you (either nothing or a wall). How is this relevant to safety?

The seatbelt is quite complicated too. I think it is 50/50 in a serious crash whether or not the seatbelt hurts or harms. In the SFO Asiana incident the girl got thrown out. So she probably should've had her seatbelt on. In the TransAsia crash in the water passengers drowned cause they could't get their seatbelt off.
Maybe there should be a "seatbelt off" requirement if you are going to land in the water.

One size does not fit all.

mduell

Regardless if it's safer, it's the one that meets the certification requirements and is the configuration that was certified.

kale73

According to the Rules, that aircraft can never land.

I have on occasion been seated in domestic F or Y seats that simply would not stay in the "upright" position. I actually prefer the fully non-reclined position most of the time and get really annoyed at those seats that refuse to stay upright. I once had a FA scold me for not having my seat upright for landing. When I told her that it wouldn't stay upright, she simply shrugged and moved on.

s0ssos

Yes, exactly. A circular argument.
The sun revolves around the earth because it is known the sun revolves around the earth.

The real question is whether something is better or even good, not whether or not people do it that way (or believe in it).

eng3

I remember this accident but don't recall anything about seatbelt problems.
I quickly scanned the report and it mentions "Most survivors were still in their seats and unbuckled their seat belts by themselves or were assisted by other passengers."

Where did you read that they couldn't get their belts off? Are you thinking of another accident? I'd be interested to read.

The only issue I've ever heard about seatbelts is that passengers have muscle memory to remove seatbelts in a car (from the side by pressing a button) and that is why it is demonstrated in the safety presentation each time to remind passengers.

That is why we have humans running the plane. If something in the plane breaks and there is no procedure/policy, they use their experience to find a solution and get everyone on the ground safely. With a broken seat, I've seen people get reseated and I've often seen nothing get done. I guess the survival odds of the guy behind are slightly lower but what else can one do. You should do whatever is safest. (ie. You don't use up all your fuel trying to fix a broken light bulb.)

If I understand the OP correctly, he is asking about the rules. I think it has been established that the rule is the seat should be upright. That does not address whether it is safer or not, that is a different question. Equipment gets tested and certified in certain configurations. If you do something outside that configuration, all bets are off. That doesnt mean all other configurations are unsafe. It just means it is unsafe to try because no one has tested it.

s0ssos

In terms of another incident, here is a discussion https://www.airliners.net/forum/view...4213&start=100
But I heard it from people in Taiwan, presumably in Chinese though. I could just find this on wikipedia
"Divers were forced to cut the seat belts of dead passengers, located mostly in the front section, to remove their bodies" but there is no citation.

But it doesn't mean it is unsafe to try. It means it is unknown if no one has tested. Doesn't mean unsafe.

Gig103

Did the remember the credit card advertisement ?

phkc070408

As was mentioned above, a non-compliant passenger may be putting more people at risk than just him/her self. While some people are just jerks and won't listen no matter what, how far does the FA legally have to go to be able to claim that they did everything they could and gave it all of their effort?

If a FA does see someone revert to comfortable positions after doing the walkthrough, how far does his/her responsibility go? Do they just remind the offender and document it if they refuse to comply? Do they have to defer the takeoff the takeoff? How do they handle this in a landing situation when they can't defer it?

I'm thinking of this from a 100% legal CYA perspective.

tarheelnj

On the 77W in Polaris, it seems the FA's always check passengers, since many of them forget the "across the chest" seatbelt.